Tungsten bolt in Max31a

[Jdub9679]

So I want to run my Max-31a with a tungsten bolt. My plan is to just start with the Lage original spring from the Max-31a and see if it runs. If the spring is too strong, I’m gonna trim a few coils off and shoot again. Rinse and repeat as needed. Anyone see a problem with this approach? I’m worried that if I have to trim too many coils, there won’t be enough tension left at the end of the bolt travel. See video below for the inspiration.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

I do not recommend doing this. The MAX-31 bolt has the sear notch on the breach face instead of the front of the bolt like an OEM bolt. With the CFW BOLT the sear will be holding the bolt back on a narrow angled part of the bolt that is not at the correct angle and is not robust enough. This will cause excess wear on the sear and the bolt, eventually causing a runaway condition.

 

[9mmsubgun-m11]

And this guy would definitely know ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Jdub9679]

I do not recommend doing this. The MAX-31 bolt has the sear notch on the breach face instead of the front of the bolt like an OEM bolt. With the CFW BOLT the sear will be holding the bolt back on a narrow angled part of the bolt that is not at the correct angle and is not robust enough. This will cause excess wear on the sear and the bolt, eventually causing a runaway condition.

Is that voice of experience or reasonable speculation? I mean if you’ve tried and that’s the result, I accept it. But as I’m sure you’re aware, enthusiasm for new projects can rarely be extinguished by what might happen.

 

[Davises]

Trust him…he knows…and if Vegas SMG was still around he would tell you he no longer recommends it either. He told me the same.

 

[Davises]

BTW - in case it isn’t obvious, Mr. Lage made your upper…so he definitely knows.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Is that voice of experience or reasonable speculation? I mean if you’ve tried and that’s the result, I accept it. But as I’m sure you’re aware, enthusiasm for new projects can rarely be extinguished by what might happen.

I get that you are a new member, but are you aware that the member you are quoting is the owner of Lage Manufacturing (the guy who makes the Max-31) ? I would think that he knows what he is talking about.

Scott

ETA I miss you Tom.

 

[Jdub9679]

I had no idea. Didn’t expect a response from the subject matter expert on my first day. Was kinda hoping for a response from someone telling me they’ve done it and it works lol. And by the explanation given, doesn’t that mean the bolt face could be slightly reshaped to correct that issue?

 

[theduke]

When you get Expert advice on the first try ... you should probly heed the warning. If it was a good idea it would have been done already.
BTW...your not the first to ask. He responds to these questions rather instantly...cause its a bad idea.

 

[Jdub9679]

I appreciate the advice. And I’m sure when Mr.Lage first began making uppers he had plenty of folks telling him he was wasting his time and he shouldn’t even try.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

I had no idea. Didn’t expect a response from the subject matter expert on my first day. Was kinda hoping for a response from someone telling me they’ve done it and it works lol. And by the explanation given, doesn’t that mean the bolt face could be slightly reshaped to correct that issue?

Yes, if you choose to pursue this project, it would be better to re-profile the area on the CFW bolt that the sear would be catching on. Just copy the profile on the MAX-31 bolt. You could carefully do it with a Dremel and a diamond coated bit. After firing, you will need to keep an eye on any wear of the newly cut sear notch. The CFW bolt is shorter than the MAX-31 which gives it more rearward travel causing it to hit the sear harder on its return forward. You will also need to be careful about what ammo you use. You may tune it to work with a certain ammo and then switch to another ammo that may runaway due to velocity, bullet weight, etc.

Yes, I have tried this configuration and observed the CFW bolt/ sear problem and promptly disassembled it and shelved it. No I do not know what spring length I used. Keep in mind, by modifying your CFW bolt, you may be devaluing it if you sell it in the future.

Sorry for the longwinded reply.

 

[9mmsubgun-m11]

I appreciate the advice. And I’m sure when Mr.Lage first began making uppers he had plenty of folks telling him he was wasting his time and he shouldn’t even try.

We NEVER told him not to try.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

I’ve tried a bunch of stuff y’all don’t know anything about! Some becomes new product, some gets archived, some gets thrown in the trash, some just becomes a personal toy for me.

Some things I build because I personally want them, such as the Alien’s MAX-41A Pulse Rifle or the Robocop styled M-11A1 .22lr pistol. I won’t produce the Pulse Rifle due to the fact that it requires MY personal skill and labor to make it. I can’t hand it off to an employee. I won’t produce the Robocop styled M-11A1 .22lr pistol due to my belief that there would be insufficient demand for it. DO NOT ask me to make these. We make uppers that we know will sell and make enough money to keep our business healthy.

I am always developing new product, but you won’t know about it until it’s on the website.

Thank you everyone for your purchases and support. You have helped get us where we are!

 

[Gaujo]

Is that voice of experience or reasonable speculation? I mean if you’ve tried and that’s the result, I accept it. But as I’m sure you’re aware, enthusiasm for new projects can rarely be extinguished by what might happen.

When he speaks about the products he designs, sells, and supports, it's safe to call that the voice of experience.

I have run this configuration in a max 31a mk2, and it was cool but a little too slow for me. I had not heard of any warnings yet in that point in time.

 

[Gaujo]

I’ve tried a bunch of stuff y’all don’t know anything about! Some becomes new product, some gets archived, some gets thrown in the trash, some just becomes a personal toy for me.

Some things I build because I personally want them, such as the Alien’s MAX-41A Pulse Rifle or the Robocop styled M-11A1 .22lr pistol. I won’t produce the Pulse Rifle due to the fact that it requires MY personal skill and labor to make it. I can’t hand it off to an employee. I won’t produce the Robocop styled M-11A1 .22lr pistol due to my belief that there would be insufficient demand for it. DO NOT ask me to make these. We make uppers that we know will sell and make enough money to keep our business healthy.

I am always developing new product, but you won’t know about it until it’s on the website.

Thank you everyone for your purchases and support. You have helped get us where we are!

I hope one day you find a worthy charity for which to make one to auction! I think it would be pretty bonkers how high it could go!

 

[stevo]

I’ve tried a bunch of stuff y’all don’t know anything about! Some becomes new product, some gets archived, some gets thrown in the trash, some just becomes a personal toy for me.

Some things I build because I personally want them, such as the Alien’s MAX-41A Pulse Rifle or the Robocop styled M-11A1 .22lr pistol. I won’t produce the Pulse Rifle due to the fact that it requires MY personal skill and labor to make it. I can’t hand it off to an employee. I won’t produce the Robocop styled M-11A1 .22lr pistol due to my belief that there would be insufficient demand for it. DO NOT ask me to make these. We make uppers that we know will sell and make enough money to keep our business healthy.

I am always developing new product, but you won’t know about it until it’s on the website.

Thank you everyone for your purchases and support. You have helped get us where we are!

So when can we expect the belt-fed upper Richard??😂😂😂

 

[stevo]

When he speaks about the products he designs, sells, and supports, it's safe to call that the voice of experience.

I have run this configuration in a max 31a mk2, and it was cool but a little too slow for me. I had not heard of any warnings yet in that point in time.

Nice cyclic rate….

 

[theduke]

I like the sound of it.

Its different for sure.

 

[brenbuilds]

So I want to run my Max-31a with a tungsten bolt. My plan is to just start with the Lage original spring from the Max-31a and see if it runs. If the spring is too strong, I’m gonna trim a few coils off and shoot again. Rinse and repeat as needed. Anyone see a problem with this approach? I’m worried that if I have to trim too many coils, there won’t be enough tension left at the end of the bolt travel. See video below for the inspiration.

I would absolutely heed Mr. Lage's warnings regarding his products, as well as general knowledge of the MAC platform, as he has more than proven his expertise.

I wanted to extrapolate on coil cutting; do not do this. Coil cutting does not alter the spring's poundage, but rather shortens the overall length and weakens the integrity of the spring as a whole. It is a dangerous practice that should not be done in any firearm, let alone straight blowback or API operating systems.

Even if you did this on a stock MAC you would increase the bolt thrust by reducing the bolt's dwell time against positive spring pressure; this can lead to a runaway gun or hammer the rear of the receiver to the point of cracking. Reducing spring weight can be achieved by using smaller coils, or in the more practical case, removing material from the outside of the existing spring using something like a belt sander.

I've seen more than a few firearms ( mostly 1911's and Hi-Power camming systems) damaged or cracked due to users cutting coils

 

[Slowmo]

I would absolutely heed Mr. Lage's warnings regarding his products, as well as general knowledge of the MAC platform, as he has more than proven his expertise.

I wanted to extrapolate on coil cutting; do not do this. Coil cutting does not alter the spring's poundage, but rather shortens the overall length and weakens the integrity of the spring as a whole. It is a dangerous practice that should not be done in any firearm, let alone straight blowback or API operating systems.

Even if you did this on a stock MAC you would increase the bolt thrust by reducing the bolt's dwell time against positive spring pressure; this can lead to a runaway gun or hammer the rear of the receiver to the point of cracking. Reducing spring weight can be achieved by using smaller coils, or in the more practical case, removing material from the outside of the existing spring using something like a belt sander.

I've seen more than a few firearms ( mostly 1911's and Hi-Power camming systems) damaged or cracked due to users cutting coils

If you use a heavier bolt like he was proposing, it will blowback at a lower velocity and with less kinetic energy that needs to be absorbed/stored by the spring.