Tenko Submissions 9mm CB 5.56 OB

[A&S Conversions]

For those of you that are following the Tenko Saga, here is a video of the closed bolt system with a 9mm CMMG rotary delayed blowback upper:

https://flic.kr/p/2ppnRB1

Here is another video of a complete firearm with the Tenko 10-16 using an open bolt system w a 10.5" 5.56X45 upper:

https://flic.kr/p/2ppAHgB

I am boxing them up and will be shipping to the NFA Branch next week. Thank you to those that have been so supportive.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

 

[hkg3k]

Man, I hate to be the video nazi...but your video would have been so much better had it been closer and properly oriented.

Good luck!

 

[Pmergler]

Congrats and good luck!

 

[Deerhurst]

Hell yeah man!

 

[A&S Conversions]

I tried to edit the raw footage but I can't find the edit. I have to admit that I am technically challenged.

Scott

 

[hkg3k]

I tried to edit the raw footage but I can't find the edit. I have to admit that I am technically challenged.

Scott

Well, if your adapter gets approved, you'll definitely want good video out there to help it sell! Learn how to turn your phone sideways to take full-screen video -or- get someone who can!

BTW...is it just me, or are both those posted videos not exactly the same?

 

[svtcobra]

I zoomed in and reupped the video. If you want it taken down, just let me know.

 

[pjm204]

Well, if your adapter gets approved, you'll definitely want good video out there to help it sell! Learn how to turn your phone sideways to take full-screen video -or- get someone who can!

BTW...is it just me, or are both those posted videos not exactly the same?

Both are the same for me as well.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Basically, the two adapters are the same. The adapter is the adapter. The fire control is the difference, which is internal. I wanted to give us the best chance of approval so we submitted both open and closed bolt versions. There has already been a couple approvals for 5.56 in open bolt. So we submitted that. As far as I know, there has not been a closed bolt M10 conversion. 9mm is an original caliber. So for the closed bolt submission, the submission is simply a closed bolt in an original caliber.

In the accompanying letter the two adapters are set up for the lower the adapter is installed in. The fact that both uppers are modified such that they will both work with the closed and open bolt systems. We have asked that both calibers would be considered submitted for both systems. I don't know how narrow or broad the ATF will allow use to be. Since the system is based on using standard uppers, we would like approval to use the adapter with AR uppers already available in the market place. We have asked for determination for use of AR upper receivers that are already available. It would be incredibly difficult and expensive to submit every configuration available, along with their time to make a determination for the same system using a different caliber.

Once the adapter is set up, going from open bolt to closed bolt operation takes less than one minute. If both systems are approved, then the adapter owner can choose which system they wish or can purchase both. The difference between the two submissions are internal. The cost between the two systems is nominal compared to the adapter cost. I hope this answers your questions. Thank you for your interest.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

 

[StenAtopia]

Basically, the two adapters are the same. The adapter is the adapter. The fire control is the difference, which is internal. I wanted to give us the best chance of approval so we submitted both open and closed bolt versions. There has already been a couple approvals for 5.56 in open bolt. So we submitted that. As far as I know, there has not been a closed bolt M10 conversion. 9mm is an original caliber. So for the closed bolt submission, the submission is simply a closed bolt in an original caliber.

In the accompanying letter the two adapters are set up for the lower the adapter is installed in. The fact that both uppers are modified such that they will both work with the closed and open bolt systems. We have asked that both calibers would be considered submitted for both systems. I don't know how narrow or broad the ATF will allow use to be. Since the system is based on using standard uppers, we would like approval to use the adapter with AR uppers already available in the market place. We have asked for determination for use of AR upper receivers that are already available. It would be incredibly difficult and expensive to submit every configuration available, along with their time to make a determination for the same system using a different caliber.

Once the adapter is set up, going from open bolt to closed bolt operation takes less than one minute. If both systems are approved, then the adapter owner can choose which system they wish or can purchase both. The difference between the two submissions are internal. The cost between the two systems is nominal compared to the adapter cost. I hope this answers your questions. Thank you for your interest.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

I think you’re confused everybody is replying to you saying that both the videos are the same. They’re not asking about the variations of the adapter.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Yeah. The videos are both the same exact video. I thought I was crazy trying to click over and over for a min or 2…

 

[StenAtopia]

Yeah. The videos are both the same exact video. I thought I was crazy trying to click over and over for a min or 2…

Me too. So I’m not the only cra cra one. What a relief!!!!

 

[A&S Conversions]

Please accept my apology. I some how manged to post the same two videos. I believe that I have fixed it. Here is the 5.56 open bolt version.

https://flic.kr/p/2ppAHgB

Scott

Again I am sorry that I am technically challenged. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Offmarksman]

Fingers crossed for an acceptance for You Scott!!!

 

[Mackjack]

Good luck!

 

[LawBob]

Im confused. I realize the old OB was approved then denied…. But the new OB or CB accepts basic ar uppers, 556 9 or otherwise, correct?

Why would I care which version I get?

 

[LawBob]

Aside from the

Im confused. I realize the old OB was approved then denied…. But the new OB or CB accepts basic ar uppers, 556 9 or otherwise, correct?

Why would I care which version I get?

debate - ob is less accurate bc of bolt movement vs cb might create cookoff

 

[A&S Conversions]

To be clear, the original 3D printed submission was closed bolt. After the ATF determined that the closed bolt 16" 5.56X45 billet aluminum system was a machinegun, they said that the 3D printed plastic could not be able to go to market because they voided the non firearm/non machinegun determination of the 3D plastic version because they contended that they were afraid to fire the 3D plastic version, but still gave it approval.

We submitted the open and closed bolt versions to have the greatest possibility of getting at least one version approved. If only the open bolt version gets approved, then that is what will go to market. If the closed bolt gets approved, then that is what would go to market. If both get approved, then it would be buyer's choice whether they buy open, closed, or both. Ultimately that is what we are hoping for. But whether open or closed, both open or closed bolt adapters systems use standard uppers receivers. The carrier must be modified for use with the open bolt system use. But once the carrier has been modified, that carrier can still be used in both open or closed bolt systems.

If only the open bolt system is approved, I would think that would have some effect on sales. Although I would think there would still be some interest in pushing two pins, switching uppers (to change calibers or just a fresh barrel but keeping the bolt group with that barrel), pushing the two pins back in, and keep shooting. We would certainly look at the reasons that the either system was not approved and continue development accordingly. I think that the biggest reason that the billet aluminum version was ruled a machinegun because the ATF wanted to hold up determinations, without saying that they were going to hold up determinations. I am sure that the big manufacturers still got determinations during the two years Lage was waiting for his documentations for the Max-11A/15 and Max-10/15. That was my mistake. We will patently wait for these determinations. I hope why both systems will be submitted has been made clearer. If there are any other questions, please let me know.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

 

[svtcobra]

Please accept my apology. I some how manged to post the same two videos. I believe that I have fixed it. Here is the 5.56 open bolt version.

https://flic.kr/p/2ppAHgB

Scott

Again I am sorry that I am technically challenged. Thank you for pointing that out.

Here you go, good luck with the submission!

 

[GK8041]

Interesting thread; I'm getting my arms around it. Having the option to adapt an AR style upper to the NFA 'M' lower is potentially a game changer. CB, delayed blowback capability...equally interesting. Just an opinion from a one time Fleming HK sear owner - I expect it’s only a matter of time (and continued innovation/persistence) that this piece of kit or version thereof will eventually go into production.