MAC 11 conversion to .22TCM?

[Slowmo]

I saw KAK is selling an MAC 11 barrel in .22TCM (link below). Has anyone ever converted their MAC to .22 TCM? I'd never heard of it until today.

https://kakindustry.com/barrel-mac-11-22-tcm-5-4-1-2-28-phosphate/

 

[strobro32]

Yes.

22 TCM barrell for a MAC

Just pulled the M11-9 I have in the safe for transfer out to have a look. Seems there should be plenty of material available to turn down a TCM barrel for a MAC. The 22" TCM barrel might be able to be cut into several blanks but only one would be factory chambered. There is a short section at...

www.uzitalk.com

Richard Lage made one for his Max-11 MK 2

http://www.max-11.com/videos/22TCM1.mp4

I made one for the Max-31K.

I found it to be scary for a open bolt FA gun and I sold my barrel.

Another member tried it with his M11/9 + Gen 1 CFW bolt.

 

[theduke]

...

 

[Slowmo]

Yes.

22 TCM barrell for a MAC

Just pulled the M11-9 I have in the safe for transfer out to have a look. Seems there should be plenty of material available to turn down a TCM barrel for a MAC. The 22" TCM barrel might be able to be cut into several blanks but only one would be factory chambered. There is a short section at...

www.uzitalk.com

Richard Lage made one for his Max-11 MK 2

http://www.max-11.com/videos/22TCM1.mp4

I made one for the Max-31K.

I found it to be scary for a open bolt FA gun and I sold my barrel.

Another member tried it with his M11/9 + Gen 1 CFW bolt.

It is a little hard to tell from the picture, but looks like the cases were bulging and distorting.

 

[Gaujo]

I'm tempted to get one as I always wanted to try this but industrial said he never got reliable feeding even with the CFW bolt in an 11/9. Bout to buy one anyway. I need TCM 9r ammo right?

 

[zipakna]

i haven't kept up with that round... have they ironed out everything between the 22TCM and the 22TCM9R? the rounds that are pictured above in Strobro's post would be the 22TCM9R

 

[strobro32]

The KAK ad says,
"USES STANDARD MAC BOLT. MUST USE 22 TCM9R AMMO TO FEED FROM GLOCK MAGS"

Did they test the barrels on SWD, Leinad, Vulcan or MPA guns? What is a "MAC-11 9MM" gun? KAK also sells complete semi M11/9 bolts that look like they are for Velocity VMAC9 side cocking guns or at least 3D printed lowers with the charging knob hole on the side of the bolt.

I wonder if that is what they tested on. Are VMAC uppers the same spec as M11/9 guns? There semi bolts are advertised as, "will not work with factory full auto parts."

Call them and see if the 22TCM barrels were tested on open bolt FA guns.

I had a few OBDs with the MAX-31K upper. The drums allowed both 22TCM bullet designs. I would be hesitant to try it on a m11/9 SMG "MAC 11 9mm." I think the best host would be a Max-11 gun like Richard tested.

 

[mwarnick1]

I found it to be scary for a open bolt FA gun

What was concerning? The brass issues shown above or something else?

 

[mwarnick1]

I had a few OBDs with the MAX-31K upper

Any guesses why these were more prone to OBD than other calibers?

 

[strobro32]

I could blame some of my issues on a one-off made barrel. I'm not sure though as it seemed more reliable over time.
The brass deforming issues and the OBDs made me anxious to shoot it.

 

[Gaujo]

OBD scary to me too!

 

[strobro32]

Here is KAKs response to my question if they had tested the 22TCM with a SWD M11/9 open bolt full auto?

"I have not run that combo. I expect it to be fine as it runs good in all the other configurations wee have tried. The 22 TCM has enough blow back to operate the bolt easily. Feeding is good. Normally you need to use the tcm9r ammo to get it to fit in the mags good without the tips dragging

CUSTOMER SERVICE"

I still think about this fun little round and what it does to watermelons. I want to believe that a standard M11/9 bolt could fire the round like KAK promotes, but I think it would damage a SWD, Leinad, Vulcan, VMAC9 or MPA gun frames, especially a 3D printed frame.

I think the terminology KAK uses to sell the "MAC-11 Barrel" is problematic as It sounds like it was tested on a MAC clone frame. It sounds like KAK does not know the terminology or consider the safety limitations of the frames. I think if a company markets something as a "MAC" product, they should test it with FA .

I look forward to hearing about members experimenting with this product. Be careful and post the results.

 

[jbntex]

So I will be the guinea pig here as I bought one of the KAK barrels, its been delivered, and already have it installed in a standard M11/9 upper.

My 22TCM9R ammo doesn't get here until tomorrow (assuming UPS does their job). Once the ammo arrives I plan to do some limited test firing this weekend using the KAK barrel installed in a standard M11 upper using a M11/9 steel bolt, one of the full 9mm sized form factor CFW tungsten bolts (I think this is Gen2? with the removable firing pin) as well as a CFW "A" tungsten bolt (the 380 sized bolt with the fixed/milled firing pin)

My plan was to obviously check for any brass deformation/separation on each bolt type and brass ejection distance/angle, ROF, and chrono the rounds. Assuming everything goes well from a brass inspection/ejection pattern, ROF/ejection, feed, etc. I then plan to take it out to my main range later this month to see how a couple hundred rounds goes from a reliability perspective.

I can report back how it all goes and whether it appears to be safe and/or functional in a open bolt M11/9 SMG for those on the fence about buying one.

 

[mwarnick1]

Thank you!

 

[Kkontx]

I had a few OBDs with the MAX-31K upper. The drums allowed both 22TCM bullet designs. I would be hesitant to try it on a m11/9 SMG "MAC 11 9mm." I think the best host would be a Max-11 gun like Richard tested.

Excuse my ignorance, being fairly newer to the full auto world, but what causes an out of battery detonation on the M11/9 and similar firearms?

Brass out of spec on the ammo that allows the primer to be struck prior to being fully chambered?

 

[strobro32]

Fixed firing pin, open bolt guns can cause cartridges to detonate outside the chamber from common issues like failures to feed or debris in the chamber.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

Or a squib round just ahead of the chamber blocking the feeding round from seating completely.

 

[zipakna]

Excuse my ignorance, being fairly newer to the full auto world, but what causes an out of battery detonation on the M11/9 and similar firearms?

Brass out of spec on the ammo that allows the primer to be struck prior to being fully chambered?

the most magnificent Out Of Battery Detonation (OOB). that I've ever had was from this type of ammo pictured. mid magazine one of the rounds decided to spit at the crimp mark that's in the middle of the brass leaving a ring inside of the chamber. This resulted in the next 4 or 5 rounds Detonating out of battery throwing brass shards against the wall and ricocheting all around the shooting booth i was in. i had cuts and scrapes all over me from that.
.

 

[strobro32]

Most people remember that aluminum cases are bad for SMGs.

Brass cases can also be a problem if they have the step inside the case.

9mm cases that has the step in the case are dangerous for all guns but especially fixed firing pin 9mm SMGs. Once the top half of the case is left in the chamber, all following rounds OOB. that is a big deal when the gun is running 1800 RPM.

Known headstamps like FM, IMT, Maxxtech, and Ammoload use stepped brass.

Evil Stepped 9mm Case is Back! MAXXTech

Buyers and Reloaders B.O.L.O. MAXXTech is using the stepped 9mm cases now like FM and Ammoload. This stuff will leave a ring in the chamber causing OOBD with open bolt SMG. Beware.

www.uzitalk.com

 

[zipakna]

my picture above is from Aguila. and i know that i was using Aguila ammo when that happened... i was bouncing back and forth with Wolf steel cased ammo and the Aguila. My suspicion was; the wolf steel case wasn't expanding all the way making my chamber extremely dirty then the Aguila brass case came along and expanded over the soot then my extractor ripped off the end only leaving the top end brass ring in place causing the out of battery detonations.