FORM 4 IN THE MAIL 8/26/03

[dannyk45]

WELL AFTER THE 3.5 MONTHS OF WAITING FOR MY FORM 3 TRANSFER TO MY DEALER, TODAY BEGINS THE LONG WAIT OF MY FORM 4. THANK YOU Vegas SMG I HOPE WATCHING THOSE VIDEOS HOLDS ME OVER TILL I GET MY FIRST SMG..
:heavy

 

[Vegas SMG]

You'll like the MAC! Great little square guns that many of us owned as our first NFA toy. I'm really sorry I sold mine, but I just never shot it much after I bought my Uzi. The funds went into the purchase of my M16 and that's really what I wanted when I bought the M11/9. I just couldn't see spending ALL that money for one, (about $3500 at the time), on a GUN. Get 'em while you can guys, we'll look back in a few short years and realize THESE were the good old days.

 

[pmf]

Danny -- your wait may well be over halfway done. I sent my form 4 in on April 1. Check was cashed on April 8. Went pending May 3. Approved June 2. In my hands July 3. I still can't figure out if that last month's delay was my dealer's laziness, or an incredibly slow mail room at BATF. All in, about 3 months total. Much better than I expected.

Here's the kicker --- I went to pick it up on July 2. There's a range 1 mile from the dealer's office. So I have about 500 rounds loaded into mags, ready to go. I get there at noon and he says we have to call it into NICS as a last step. I always get turned down the first call to NICS (despite having a clean record and at one time, a top secret security clearance). So he calls and I get turned down. 2 hours later, he calls back and they say their computers are down (this seems to happen a lot to me too). So 2 hours after that, I get into my car and drive home --- WITHOUT THE GUN. The next day I drive out and take possession.

You can call NFA anytime you want regarding your status. They can be rude, so make sure you have the serial number and transferors name handy. The person doing your form 4 is not the person answering the phone, so call as much as you want

202-927-8330

 

[RoverDave]

I get there at noon and he says we have to call it into NICS as a last step.

pmf, your dealer goofed up on that one. He doesn 't have to do a NICS check. He does have to fill out a 4473 but the approved form 4 takes the place of the NICS check, just like a concealed weapons permit can take the place of the NICS check in some states.

 

[pmf]

I had heard that it was not necessary to do a NICS check and asked him about it. He says he insists on doing it and won't make any exceptions. I had no choice.

It does seem strange to go through all that crap with the Sheriff's signiture, fingerprints, FBI background check, etc and then do a stupid NICS check over the phone.

The guy is a major class 3 dealer in my area and has been doing it for almost 10 years. He's got 3 huge vaults crammed full of machine guns --- literally, anything you can think of, he has 3 of them. His collection must be worth well over a million bucks. I guess no one can accuse him of not being careful enough.

 

[MuzzleFlash]

He can be doing it because of a state law or just for additional CYA.

 

[dannyk45]

PMF

I HOPE YOUR'E RIGHT BUDDY. I'D LIKE TO SHOOT BEFORE THE SNOW FALLS.:heavy :heavy :heavy :heavy

 

[RoverDave]

He can be doing it because of a state law or just for additional CYA.

How can state law affect a 4473? I know not all state concealed weapons permit qualify as a background check, but that's a matter of federal law determining if a state process qualifies. The form 4 qualifies in any state as far as the feds are concerned. Can a state put additional restrictions on how the 4473 is filled out? The state doesn't have any say on the NICS check itself. That's also a federal thing.

 

[RoverDave]

Obviously states can put their own restrictions on NFA transfers. That why some of our unfortunate members live in states that don't even allow NFA transfers. But that's something in addition to the 4473. My question was more speicifly whether a state could pass a law that changed the definition of what satisfied the completion of a 4473. Being it's a federal form, it didn't seem likely to me. I suppose a state could have their own requirement on a NICS check, but you'd think that that would be tied to some sort of state form, not the 4473. But hey, who can tell with gun laws.

 

[JDmontana]

Transfer time

The Form 4473 has a block that requires no NICS check for NFA transfer so it may be a state requirement. My transfer has been over 200 freakin days and I am an FFL. I turned the matter over for a congressional and I'm glad I did because the response I got from the BATF indicated to me it would only be resolved in response to a my Senator's inquiry. My advice, insure you turn forms in yourself, call at 60 days pending and talk to examiner to ensure everything is in order. Then at least every 30 days thereafter. If it hits 120 days pending then I would highly suggest getting your Senator or Congressman involved. No amount of talikng with them at any supervisory level will do any good. They ignore all common sense and only respond to your elected represenative with the authority to make them uncomfortable.

 

[Pa.Patriot]

The state can require the NICS for any transaction.
Not sure about the NFA but here in PA carry permit will not satisfy the NICS which is done by the PA state police.
Some states accept the carry permit in leiu some will not...

 

[MuzzleFlash]

Obviously states can put their own restrictions on NFA transfers. That why some of our unfortunate members live in states that don't even allow NFA transfers. But that's something in addition to the 4473. My question was more speicifly whether a state could pass a law that changed the definition of what satisfied the completion of a 4473....

Some states act as what is referred to as a POC. That is, they front-end the NICS instead of the FBI. The dealer calls the state POC number instead of the FBI number. That means that they can do additional stuff that the FBI does not do and then if the transferee passes their criteria, they backend the request to the FBI NICS for processing as usual.

Before 1998, the feds did not require a restraining order check as part of the NICS. My state, Colorado had their own POC system that checked for ROs in addition to the FBI NICS. That system was eliminated in FY 1997 by the legislature to save money and the transaction fee charged by the state.

As usual, some idiot in a custody fight capped his own kids and then drove them to a police station where he committed suicide by firing on the cops who then ended his miserable life for him. He had a RO but the fed NICS didn't turn it up when he bought the gun he used to commit the crimes. That event, led to the reinstatement of the Colorado POC and RO checks as well as the modification of the federal system to check for ROs.

Long story, but some states require a NICS/POC be done for all firearm purchases. Probably unintentional, but they neglected to exempt NFA weapons like federal law does for obvious reasons.

 

[pmf]

Virginia (where I live) does require licensing of machine guns. You send in the notorized form with 24 hours of taking possession and they send you back a license that you must carry a copy of (along with the form 4) with the gun. You also cannot buy a machine gun for purposes of shooting it -- I kid you not -- on the form 4, I stated collector/investment as the reason for the purchase.

My guess is that my state requires it. The guy I dealt with does a lot of class 3 sales and knows what he's doing.