Big cans are best for the M11/9 is a myth.

[CoffeeFreak]

Beam me back Scotty, this is supposed to be about suppressing the M11/9 SMG

Apparently, this went off topic enough to be moved here in the ever popular general suppressor discussion (and when I say ever popular I mean not really). Unfortunately it's kind of important to M11/9 owners. If you would like to talk specifically about suppressing the M11/9 SMG That's here.

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?85151-Big-cans-are-best-for-the-M11-9-is-a-myth!

Feel free to talk about anything suppressor related you want here now in this thread or in any of the other 5 (currently) active threads here in the suppressor forum, or start your own.

Best wishes_________Mike

 

[sniperdoc]

Coffee, as always,you are 100% correct!
Volume is certainly 1 way to achieve noise suppression, but it is neither the most efficient, nor the only,way

 

[nklf]

Amen brother. I too have big cans and small cans and they both work.

 

[twzadms]

I for one owe a huge thank you to CoffeeFreak for this "rant". It saved me money! Time to get an adapter for the multimount that I have never even tried!

 

[MACchat]

Well said. And the truth. Glad you wrote it because had it been authored by almost anyone else, it would have been endlessly skewered.

 

[A&S Conversions]

I for one owe a huge thank you to CoffeeFreak for this "rant". It saved me money! Time to get an adapter for the multimount that I have never even tried!

Just to be clear, while Gemtech lists the Multimount as full auto rated, it is a light weight all aluminum can. I never did get from Gemtech what "full auto rated" means. I can tell to that I put 357 rounds (12-30 rd mags with three rounds left in the last mag) through a Gemtech original Raptor 9mm can in about a minute and a half. The mount and the first baffle stayed on the barrel. The rest of the suppressor went tumbling forward. I sent the suppressor back to Gemtech. The Raptor II design eliminated one baffle. Dr. Dater eliminated the first baffle and reset the mount in the shortened tube. He sent it back and never charged me. When I asked him, he said I owed him dinner.

The Raptor series is a heavier subgun only design. So pounding mag after mag through a light weight can that could be used on a pistol, would not be a good choice IMHO. I think Mike makes a good point. But to me there is more to suppression than simple sound suppression. What is the application? As a collector, sound suppression is important. I have also found that buying a "one size fits all" like a .45 can for all pistol and 300 BLK OUT applications can be done, but will not give the best results in all applications. If you like lots of mag dumps, a light weight pistol can might not be the best fit. Yes, 12 mags in a minute and a half wasn't the best choice either. But I shot what I brought. YMMV.

Scott

 

[CoffeeFreak]

Scott makes a good point. Use common sense when it comes to shooting full auto through any can. One of my best friends has ruined half his cans overheating them. They are warped all to hell and have internal issues too. If you are just looking to make a bunch of holes as fast as you can, just because you can, TAKE OFF THE CAN.

On one of them, a very expensive full auto rated 30 Cal Titanium big name brand can that he warped from doing a bunch of 223 mag dumps, I Googled the owner's manual and it said shoot no more the 3 30 round mags in continuous fire and then allow to cool to the touch before shooting again. He never bothered to read the manual.

On a side note too much turbulence inside a can while increasing suppression can actually destabilize a bullet making it less accurate. There is a fine line.

 

[ncjeeper]

I thought there were going to be photos of busty chicks. Darn.

 

[IndustrialRescue]

Scott makes a good point. Use common sense when it comes to shooting full auto through any can. One of my best friends has ruined half his cans overheating them. They are warped all to hell and have internal issues too. If you are just looking to make a bunch of holes as fast as you can, just because you can, TAKE OFF THE CAN.

On one of them, a very expensive full auto rated 30 Cal Titanium big name brand can that he warped from doing a bunch of 223 mag dumps, I Googled the owner's manual and it said shoot no more the 3 30 round mags in continuous fire and then allow to cool to the touch before shooting again. He never bothered to read the manual.

On a side note too much turbulence inside a can while increasing suppression can actually destabilize a bullet making it less accurate. There is a fine line.

Sounds like YHM, lol. Which is why I went with the Saker instead.

 

[TheColtCollector]

Scott makes a good point. Use common sense when it comes to shooting full auto through any can. One of my best friends has ruined half his cans overheating them. They are warped all to hell and have internal issues too. If you are just looking to make a bunch of holes as fast as you can, just because you can, TAKE OFF THE CAN.

On one of them, a very expensive full auto rated 30 Cal Titanium big name brand can that he warped from doing a bunch of 223 mag dumps, I Googled the owner's manual and it said shoot no more the 3 30 round mags in continuous fire and then allow to cool to the touch before shooting again. He never bothered to read the manual.

On a side note too much turbulence inside a can while increasing suppression can actually destabilize a bullet making it less accurate. There is a fine line.

Lol it was the YHM titanium QD phantom in 223. 7 or 8 quick mag dumps at a MG shoot between 3 or 4 people warped it. O well. I still use it *sparingly*. I let it cool completely after one mag dump because the top side of the blast baffle has melted down from that first torture

 

[CoffeeFreak]

Sounds like YHM, lol. Which is why I went with the Saker instead.

Yes, the YHM Phantom lol. The Saker is a great can.

@ Scott, The Gemtech Raptor-II is essentially Gemtech Multimount, it's all the same except not serviceable and has larger bore tolerances to make up for the lack of being able to clean it. Gemtech guarantees it for 150,000 rounds with factory jacketed ammo. It uses the same mounts now. The larger bore diameter hurts performance, It's 4 db louder than the Multimount. That may not sound like a lot but it's huge. Gemtech was supposed to discontinue the Multimount last year, replaced by the G-Core9. Gemtech is under new ownership and I am thinking the new owners had second thoughts about discontinuing the best rated 9MM can on the market. The Multimount has a titanium blast baffle but the manual for the Raptor-II says it's all aluminum internals. I think based on the weight that's wrong and it has a titanium blast baffle also. The Multimount 3 lug mount is standard with the Raptor-II now while the Multimount comes with no mount. That's the extra weight and length in the specs.

Best wishes,______Mike

 

[CoffeeFreak]

LOL Beau, I wasn't going to say it was you.

I was reading some of the subgun suppressor manuals and it says in bold print, well look at page 6.

https://gemtech.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/25/product_id/40/

I wonder why? :dunno

(Not really, I know why, I have seen chunks of built up lead break off in the can and cause baffle and end cap strikes. It's an inside joke)

 

[TheColtCollector]

As far as size for the m11/9 can goes, mike is totally right. I have a bowers vers9 "clone" in titanium (10" 1.75" diameter) that is way gassier than my direct thread 7" 1.5" diameter form 1 can. I can't tell a difference in the sound between the two

 

[Gaujo]

Lol it was the YHM titanium QD phantom in 223. 7 or 8 quick mag dumps at a MG shoot between 3 or 4 people warped it. O well. I still use it *sparingly*. I let it cool completely after one mag dump because the top side of the blast baffle has melted down from that first torture

Can't you send it in under warranty?

 

[Ericoak]

Are you saying that two cans with the exact same general design, with one being twice as long, will be equally gassy? Or just that volume is one factor of many?

 

[LT Rob]

CoffeeFreak,

Thanks for this thread. I'm just about ready to buy a suppressor and I appreciate your comments.

I had not considered the effects of overheating as much as I should have. I like to shoot 200 rounds during a one hour range session (mostly in short bursts with a SWD M11-A1 .380). Your comment regarding warping is invaluable.

Rob

 

[TheColtCollector]

Are you saying that two cans with the exact same general design, with one being twice as long, will be equally gassy? Or just that volume is one factor of many?

In my case, my form 1 can had a more efficient baffle design while the big one had a traditional K baffle stack. The bigger one is more gassy

 

[CoffeeFreak]

Are you saying that two cans with the exact same general design, with one being twice as long, will be equally gassy? Or just that volume is one factor of many?

That's a whole different question that I don't think I can answer. I don't know of two cans that exist in the same caliber with the same design one being twice as long. The reason why cans got smaller is because the baffles got more efficient. Once you reach maximum suppression for a design why would you want to go any larger. For example baffles in my 9MM Subgun can designs reaches maximum suppression at 7" and 8 baffles and any longer with more baffles has no additional effect. Once you reach maximum suppression like with my 22 cans where all you hear is the action what's the point.

I can tell you that my eyes burn equally shooting the Bowers Cac9 and the Gemtech Multimount. One has twice the volume while the other has a better baffle stack. The gas seems to be coming from the last of the gas in the chamber deflected off the blast baffle as the bolt travels rearward and is funneled to my face through the recess in the bolt when I don't have a gas kicker. I can also tell you ammunition type and brand has an impact on that burning and how bad it gets.

I have a friend in Henderson Nevada that says the air is so dry there in the desert he has never experienced gassing with any can and I built his Grey Ghost without a gas kicker. I suspect that if you farted there you would create no gas. I was there last month and put that to the test and had no complaints. He could be right. It's also possible the lack of wind or too much wind made the test results skewed. Most of my fart testing was at the Grand Canyon.

 

[CoffeeFreak]

CoffeeFreak,

Thanks for this thread. I'm just about ready to buy a suppressor and I appreciate your comments.

I had not considered the effects of overheating as much as I should have. I like to shoot 200 rounds during a one hour range session (mostly in short bursts with a SWD M11-A1 .380). Your comment regarding warping is invaluable.

Rob

380 is gassier than 9MM in all my cans.

 

[TheColtCollector]

My ammo is all powdercoat soft lead bullets making it about 2-3 times gassier than traditional ammo. So it's very easy for me to determine which can pushes out more gas