M16 Owners, What Brought You To Purchase It?

[A&S Conversions]

My first rifle was a AR-15. It didn't take long to notice that the barrel would get very hot, very quickly. The gun was a Colt SP-1. It came with the original 20" upper and a Bushmaster 16" M4 style upper. So once the first barrel got hot I would switch them. Th off set pin was awkward. Then I started to collect different calibers and configurations.

After shooting a friend's M16, I knew that was what I wanted for my first machinegun. I sold off most of my semi automatic collection to buy the M16. That was the best thing I've done for my collection. I have way more in accessories than I do in my DIAS. Of course I bought it for $9,000.00 13 years ago.

For me, versatility is king. I sold the Colt M16 (my first machinegun) in favor of the DIAS. Why, because I could put the drop in into configurations that the Colt gun could not do, like Grease Gun or Thompson mag fed .45 ACP, Valkyrie belt with KNS spade grips, or an AK mag fed 7.62x39.

So for those that bought a M16, did you buy it for the versatility, the collectability, US military service, or some other reason? If I had to go into harm's way I'd want a Colt M16. It was a great gun and ran well.

Scott

 

[chili17]

I picked up a DIAS in 2001 or 2 for the versatility. Thought I would get a Shrike, but that never happened. Sometime later I picked up a couple of MGI lowers and started shooting 7.62x39. Ammo was just so much cheaper at the time. Think I could buy a case of 7.62 cheaper than i could load .223. Then I tried 9mm, did not like it. I could make it slow and choppy or smooth and fast, no in between. Along the way i tried a bunch of different caliber conversions from .22- .458. They were all ok, but nothing really floated my boat. Nowadays I primarily shoot a 11.5", 5.56 upper and an 8", 300blk upper, both suppressed. I find it entertaining to see have many rounds of 3-4 shot burst I can keep on a milpark at 100-200yds.

 

[mattnh]

DIAS for the ability to essentially trash gun and replace
Colt M16s because: USGI, Collectability, reliability, options for modernization

I run LWRC uppers on Colt RR lower most of the time (or RDIAS).

M16 is Ultra-reliable. Def one of my favorites.

 

[Gaffshot]

Chili, what buffer do you use with the 11.5"? Carbine extension, rifle, or A5?

I bought my Group Industries M16 because M16 is BEST! Everybody knows that. And the Group is made from stainless so that's cool too.

I have 11.5" Daniel defense carbine gas length barrel, A5 extension with Vltor A5 H2 buffer. It cycles at 750 to 765 rpm. That's not bad for the 11.5" barrel setup but 650-700 would be preferable.

 

[chili17]

Chili, what buffer do you use with the 11.5"? Carbine extension, rifle, or A5?

I bought my Group Industries M16 because M16 is BEST! Everybody knows that. And the Group is made from stainless so that's cool too.

I have 11.5" Daniel defense carbine gas length barrel, A5 extension with Vltor A5 H2 buffer. It cycles at 750 to 765 rpm. That's not bad for the 11.5" barrel setup but 650-700 would be preferable.

On the 5.56 11.5" set up i'm using a mgi carbine buffer in a standard 7" extension and a adjustable gas block. I picked up a couple of Tubb recoil springs and kynshot buffer that amphibian recommended, but have not tried them yet. Typically I keep turning down the gas until the bolt will not lock back on a empty mag, unsuppressed, make a note, then add a suppressor and do the same thing. Write the setting down on a piece of tape and stick it on the stock. I mainly shoot my reloads and the only difference between the two loads I shoot are in one I use a FMJ bullet and the other I use a SP bullet. That way I do not have to make adjustments for different types of ammo. With a little playing around you tune it to the point that the buffer just barely bottoms out, making for a very smooth shooting set up. Its been a while since I clocked the set up, but it is easy to pull singles . *THINK it was in the 675 rpm range .

 

[cajun 22]

I had an M11/nine but wanted a rifle caliber mg also. I purchased an M16 for that reason and easy upper/caliber changes. Can't do that with an AC556 or an AK.

 

[Samuel_Hoggson]

History first. Next reliability (contrary to what the masses think), very controllable in FA, and relatively inexpensive ammo (.223/5.56).

Zero interest in other cartridges/reloading for them/piston designs/drums and belts/aftermarket accessories and all Barbi attachments, ie., the exploration and versatility angles. If 922(o) is repealed and RRs can be had for less than $2k, then I might. But probably not.

My favorite uppers are 20" A1s and 11.5"s - just seem "right" somehow. Alone at the range, selector is most always on semi. Let them rip at shoots, and when introducing kids.

 

[timkel]

Versatility of switching uppers makes it a good choice. But the aluminum lower was a concern. I waited till stainless steel lowers hit the market to buy.

 

[ccosby]

I started out with a texas m10/45 that I had practical solutions rebuild as soon as I got it and setup with a lage upper(I bought the lage upper for the texas/jersey guns but Sam said send it so he could make sure it fit right). I really wanted to buy a FNC and asked Mike at TSC Machine about them as he used to upgrade them. He pulled one out of the safe that was a friend of his that was one of the last ones he did and said it was for sale and he told me not to buy it. His rationale was to pay a little more for a m16 conversion as the fnc parts really didn't brake but when they did finding replacements was going to be a major issue. I ended up finding a colt 727 m16a2 instead. I wanted something that was going to work without fucking with it and a colt a2 is going to be one of the best chances for that.

For me I mostly wanted to shoot 5.56 and didn't really care about the caliber conversions other than 22lr. Stuff like 9mm through a m16 just isn't very good(I haven't tried the delayed blowback cmmg which should help). 300 blackout scares the shit out of me because it will chamber and fire in a 5.56 gun blowing it up. While I don't think I'd personally do it I just don't want the stuff near my guns incase a friend loads some in.

Honestly I kinda wish I went with the HK sear first(I have one now) and if I did it again I might skip the m16 for a second one. The caliber conversion on the hk sear is a lot more expensive but honestly the hk33 series shoots about as well as a m16 and you get 308 and a very nice(probability still the best) 9mm option out there. You also have belt fed options although they are really expensive(actually just got the stamp on a 21k host).

I find myself shooting the mp5 hosts more than the m16. I will say though I love my left eject upper for the m16. Being a south paw it really helps when shooting suppressed.

 

[Sten]

I started out with an M11 SWD as that's what I could afford at the time back in 2010. My eventual goal was an M16 and I was able to finally purchase one two years later, but with NFA, it's a slippery slope. At this point, I have tons of uppers and options for the M16, but things have changed a bit. While I still have my M16, I don't shoot it as much. Usually the HK sear and hosts get to the range as that's what everyone wants to see.

That being said, there's a lot of fun in tinkering with what I call my Lego rifle (at least for me), and it's a great hobby to share with friends and family, so I doubt I'll get rid of it any time soon. Always excited about the new innovations and developments in the Mac community. With the adapters that are hopefully coming out, my Macs should hopefully start to get some more range time with some of my M16 uppers.

 

[Concorde]

I bought my M16 several years ago, when I was thinking towards retirement from my job where I am the responsible person on the FFL for the engineering company for which I work. I knew I’d really miss that gun more than any of our other full autos that we use for testing against armor configurations, etc. It was $16K, which hurt the pocketbook, but a transferable DIAS was way too high a price for me to justify.

However, as I moved towards retirement, I decided to get an FFL and SOT on my own, so I now have other post-sample full auto toys that I couldn’t have as an individual, and I enjoy the interaction that I get continuing to service some of the LEOs and gov’t folks with whom I developed relationships at my engineering job, and provide FFL transfers for local gun club members.

I still enjoy the select fire M16/AR15 guns a LOT, whether they are RRs or using a DIAS. One of my favorites for show-n-tell is set up with a belt-fed 9mm upper, spade grips, on a tripod mount.
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showt...elt-fed-owners&p=766743&viewfull=1#post766743

 

[nklf]

I got an HK sear first. It was going to be my only MG (famous last words). I had no interest in an M16. All my life I had heard they were uncontrolable plastic junk. Then I went to a school on shooting FA M16. That class changed my opinion completely and I purchased a converted SP-1. Later on I got a Lightning Link and DIAS for versatility, but they are still sitting in the safe unfired by me. I wanted an MGI lower for the DIAS for versatility, but never found one.

 

[twzadms]

A 2010 Honda Fit.


I kid, I kid.... Just like the platform.

 

[ccosby]

I got an HK sear first. It was going to be my only MG (famous last words). I had no interest in an M16. All my life I had heard they were uncontrolable plastic junk. Then I went to a school on shooting FA M16. That class changed my opinion completely and I purchased a converted SP-1. Later on I got a Lightning Link and DIAS for versatility, but they are still sitting in the safe unfired by me. I wanted an MGI lower for the DIAS for versatility, but never found one.

I went the other way, I got the m16a2 first thinking between that and the m10/45 I first bought I'd be gtg. Mike at TSC joked with me that I'd be getting a HK sear next and I told him no way. Yea he was right.

Its weird as my m16 really only gets shots in two configurations. First is with a m4 upper and the second is with a 11.5 inch lefty upper. I have a bunch of different ar uppers that I could fire on it but just don't care. The HK sear gets the most use.

In my case I'm almost tempted to sell the 3 macs I have and put them towards another HK sear. The A&S conversion device though interests me so I can run like the 9mm beltfed upper on the m10. I've always been worried about them and the firecontrol group pin holes on the m16 lower. With that device the idea of wearing out the cheap device instead of a very expensive lower interests me.

 

[J2X]

I got one because it is the most versatile, dependable and accurate select fire rifle available. Instantly converted to one of the best subguns.
I have owned and used many others.

 

[amphibian]

My first MG was RR AMT Lightning (all stainless steel clone of the Ruger 10/22). It was converted to the Norrell system. This was during the 94-04 AWB and people were paying over $50 for cheap plastic 30 round Eagle 10/22 mags. I was thinking it would be my only MG and being 22LR, I could shoot a lot....well you know how that goes. Anyways, I was shooting so much that I was wearing out the plastic mags and nobody knew if the AWB was going to sunset or not so I just sold the AMT Lightning and for about the same money got a RR Colt SP1 thinking I would just use the Ciener kit that uses all steel mags that he sold which were all you could get in those days for the 22LR kit as Black Dog wasn't out yet. It was frustrating but I did get it running great in 22LR.

I now run it 100% with the 50 round BDM drums.
I also have the belt fed LM7 and while finicky I've had it running the 500 round belts flawlessly at one time. Right now it needs some tweaking and I need to spend some more time getting it back up and running but I know it can do it as it has before.

My point is you don't have these 22LR options for the HK sear...yeah I know there is the G3 kit that works great but with it's 20 round mags? Then Bazooka Bros made an adapter to run the AM180 drums on the G3 but those didn't work.
On that note there is also the AM180 upper for the RR's but I'm leary of using an open bolt configuration on a RR even if it is only 22LR.

Regardless, way more 22LR options for the M16 family than an HK sear.

I am fortunate to have tried a lot of different MG's and have several friends w/ HK's and the only host that interested me was the MP5. I have no desire for any of the HK's in 5.56 or .308.
I think a straight blowback M16 in 9mm is horrible compared to an MP5's delayed blowback.

Yeah, I know there is the HK52 to run 7.62x39 but I've got that covered and more with my MGI lower as seen in the picture below:

I later got a RDIAS around 2003 or so.

As you can see in that pic, I've also got the AK-74 magwell to run unmodfied AK74 mags which runs awesome.

Now fast forward to today and my desire for the MP5 has finally been satisfied with the CMMG RDB (Radially Delayed Blowback).

I have extensively documented all the tinkering I've done here: http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=956

This link discusses all the tuning in regards to full auto: http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=538

As discussed there, the MP5 is what I've been trying to beat. With the MP5, yes it is smooth but the cyclic rate is still a little high to pull singles. Yes, I know many are going to say they can do it and I can too but it is harder to do consistently vs something running in the 600's.

This link is a Youtube video comparing the MP5K PDW to my CMMG RDB

With the CMMG RDB, I now have the soft recoil impulse of the MP5 but also now have last round BHO, better ergonomics, better trigger (Geissele SSF in mine), better optics options more parts availability and of course easier to work on than an MP5.

The AR/M16 family is also tunable with the various buffers/springs out there. Other than changing locking pieces there is nothing you can really do in regards to tuning an HK.

So all that said, with my only desire for a sear being an MP5, I think I have that covered now. However, I'd still gladly take an MP5 as a collector as it is obviously a proven platform w/ a pedigree...but for actually using in competition, the CMMG RDB beats it IMHO for the reasons previously mentioned.

For those of you with a RDIAS or RLL, look into getting a Windham Weaponry (I have confirmed it is compatible with the MGI). They probably made them for MGI.
https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/product-category/mcs-multi-caliber-system/

I think it is unfortunate a large assortment of magwells aren't available anymore but I plan on using a 3D printer to make my own magwells at some point.

 

[A&S Conversions]

I think it is unfortunate a large assortment of magwells aren't available anymore but I plan on using a 3D printer to make my own magwells at some point.

I agree that. After the testing with the Tenko, I don't know about a plastic 3D printed magwell. The chamber area of the where the heat is generated. Aluminum conveys heat really well. So the front lug will get hot with a bunch of full auto fire. Pistol caliber tends to be lower temperature. The upper is held by the two pins. I would think that the back pin and the fit will hold the whole thing together, even if the magwell softened up. But I would think the whole thing would need to be together to cool off.

I really appreciate the research you have done. Thank you. Have you ever thought of modifying an AK mag to be an up tight drum holder for your Shrike? Hopefully Windham Weaponry or someone will pick up the MGI system. I haven't found an AK 74 magwell (I would like one), but I have managed to find a Grease Gun, a large frame (20 or 21) Glock, a couple of AK 47 and of course multiple AR magwells.

I have had some of those AR magwells modified for various applications. One was modified for the Valkyrie Armaments belt system, one has been modified to use modified Thompson mags for double stack double feed .45 direct impingement upper. It was expensive but I much prefer the Thompson mag to the Grease gun for .45 use. I modified the GG magwell catch to use with the CMMG RDB .45 upper. I still have a couple of stripped MGI AR magwell blemish lowers tucked away. The engraving was of various depths. I bought them before Windham Weaponry started producing their version. I'm glad to see the Windham Weaponry still has the standard AR, AR 9mm and AK 47 7.62X39 available.

Scott

 

[amphibian]

I agree that. After the testing with the Tenko, I don't know about a plastic 3D printed magwell. The chamber area of the where the heat is generated. Aluminum conveys heat really well. So the front lug will get hot with a bunch of full auto fire. Pistol caliber tends to be lower temperature. The upper is held by the two pins. I would think that the back pin and the fit will hold the whole thing together, even if the magwell softened up. But I would think the whole thing would need to be together to cool off.

Yeah, I was thinking it would be fun to do the 3D printing for prototyping and if it works then give the program to someone that can print out of stronger material.

Have you ever thought of modifying an AK mag to be an up tight drum holder for your Shrike? Hopefully Windham Weaponry or someone will pick up the MGI system.

Hah...Did that years ago.
Below is a picture of an Bulgarian AK47 mag I chopped up to do exactly that. Later on I had the MGI AR magwell hacked and just use that now. Nice that it still takes mags and has a functional BHO that you don't get with the AK magwells.

 

[rssc]

My first MG was RR AMT Lightning (all stainless steel clone of the Ruger 10/22). It was converted to the Norrell system. This was during the 94-04 AWB and people were paying over $50 for cheap plastic 30 round Eagle 10/22 mags. I was thinking it would be my only MG and being 22LR, I could shoot a lot....well you know how that goes. Anyways, I was shooting so much that I was wearing out the plastic mags and nobody knew if the AWB was going to sunset or not so I just sold the AMT Lightning and for about the same money got a RR Colt SP1 thinking I would just use the Ciener kit that uses all steel mags that he sold which were all you could get in those days for the 22LR kit as Black Dog wasn't out yet. It was frustrating but I did get it running great in 22LR.

I now run it 100% with the 50 round BDM drums.
I also have the belt fed LM7 and while finicky I've had it running the 500 round belts flawlessly at one time. Right now it needs some tweaking and I need to spend some more time getting it back up and running but I know it can do it as it has before.

My point is you don't have these 22LR options for the HK sear...yeah I know there is the G3 kit that works great but with it's 20 round mags? Then Bazooka Bros made an adapter to run the AM180 drums on the G3 but those didn't work.
On that note there is also the AM180 upper for the RR's but I'm leary of using an open bolt configuration on a RR even if it is only 22LR.

Regardless, way more 22LR options for the M16 family than an HK sear.

I am fortunate to have tried a lot of different MG's and have several friends w/ HK's and the only host that interested me was the MP5. I have no desire for any of the HK's in 5.56 or .308.
I think a straight blowback M16 in 9mm is horrible compared to an MP5's delayed blowback.

Yeah, I know there is the HK52 to run 7.62x39 but I've got that covered and more with my MGI lower as seen in the picture below:

I later got a RDIAS around 2003 or so.

As you can see in that pic, I've also got the AK-74 magwell to run unmodfied AK74 mags which runs awesome.

Now fast forward to today and my desire for the MP5 has finally been satisfied with the CMMG RDB (Radially Delayed Blowback).

I have extensively documented all the tinkering I've done here: http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=956

This link discusses all the tuning in regards to full auto: http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=538

As discussed there, the MP5 is what I've been trying to beat. With the MP5, yes it is smooth but the cyclic rate is still a little high to pull singles. Yes, I know many are going to say they can do it and I can too but it is harder to do consistently vs something running in the 600's.

This link is a Youtube video comparing the MP5K PDW to my CMMG RDB

With the CMMG RDB, I now have the soft recoil impulse of the MP5 but also now have last round BHO, better ergonomics, better trigger (Geissele SSF in mine), better optics options more parts availability and of course easier to work on than an MP5.

The AR/M16 family is also tunable with the various buffers/springs out there. Other than changing locking pieces there is nothing you can really do in regards to tuning an HK.

So all that said, with my only desire for a sear being an MP5, I think I have that covered now. However, I'd still gladly take an MP5 as a collector as it is obviously a proven platform w/ a pedigree...but for actually using in competition, the CMMG RDB beats it IMHO for the reasons previously mentioned.

For those of you with a RDIAS or RLL, look into getting a Windham Weaponry (I have confirmed it is compatible with the MGI). They probably made them for MGI.
https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/product-category/mcs-multi-caliber-system/

I think it is unfortunate a large assortment of magwells aren't available anymore but I plan on using a 3D printer to make my own magwells at some point.

Amphibian, do you know if the Windham multi caliber upper is compatible with an RLL as is or would the receiver need to be modified/have clearance cuts made?

Thanks!

 

[amphibian]

Amphibian, do you know if the Windham multi caliber upper is compatible with an RLL as is or would the receiver need to be modified/have clearance cuts made?

Thanks!

Sorry, the only thing I know about are the magwells. I have friends that ordered the magwells and they dropped in with his MGI lower with no mods.
On that note, I think I've mentioned before that I don't think MGI actually made anything and always used shops to make their products and there have been variations over the years. I have 3 MGI lowers and they appear to all be machined from different shops. 1 of them was drop in for a RDIAS while two of them had to be milled. One of them they put the detent hole too far back so the buffer face was getting chewed up slamming into the detent.

Great system with a lot of potential...shame it seems to be going the way of the dodo bird.

I think the ultimate would be to have a back half made out of SS. The reason being is that I have one MGI lower that I was using for some harsh configurations and I think the hammer pin hole is slightly enlarged...I've broken several hammer pins on it. There isn't enough room to really do anything about it since the magwell covers the hammer pin.