Freedom Ordnance FM-9 belt fed owners

[Galil#1]

If You Build It, They Will Come.
Please Build It!
Perhaps you good folks should try to "team up" with Richard Lage?
Could be a serious Win-Win $$$ business venture!?
We/SMG/MG owners really want your awesome products and we have $$$.

 

[A&S Conversions]

As I mentioned the parts are out of stock as we have reserved what is in current inventory for warranty. We will always have or make parts to sustain warranty work at a very minimum. I do not have information to share at this time about belt fed products aside from what I mentioned earlier, we have ideas of what we want to do.

Again, I think it is great that there is inventory for warranty work. I would think that it would be a good thing to make that clearer on your website, as that was not clear to me from the website. It also shows that the FM-9 is out of stock and the links are out of stock. So that leads me to believe that as a potential buyer, my only option is buying a used one. So will the FM-9 ever be made again? If so, when is that planned?

Again, I think that it is great for you to check in with owners of your product. But what about potential buyers? You say that you are deciding what other products that you might produce, but no information as to ever building your original product. I can't be the only potential buyer. At $2,900 a peice, plus I would imagine that there would typically be additional accessories with the purchase like additional barrels and links, there must be enough profit to justify some limited production? Especially since the current retail price listed is over double the original retail price. Please let us know.

Scott

Scott

 

[FreedomJosh]

Again, I think it is great that there is inventory for warranty work. I would think that it would be a good thing to make that clearer on your website, as that was not clear to me from the website. It also shows that the FM-9 is out of stock and the links are out of stock. So that leads me to believe that as a potential buyer, my only option is buying a used one. So will the FM-9 ever be made again? If so, when is that planned?

Again, I think that it is great for you to check in with owners of your product. But what about potential buyers? You say that you are deciding what other products that you might produce, but no information as to ever building your original product. I can't be the only potential buyer. At $2,900 a peice, plus I would imagine that there would typically be additional accessories with the purchase like additional barrels and links, there must be enough profit to justify some limited production? Especially since the current retail price listed is over double the original retail price. Please let us know.

Scott

Scott

Actually the original MSRP was $2495 on sale for $1895 on launch and eventually went up to $2295 while I was no longer at freedom. I know that price because I came up with it and created the graphic (which Im sure I still have on a hard drive) that had the $2495 slashed out and the $1895 near it.

You keep asking the same question which I said I have no further information. I have said what I feel comfortable discussing in a public forum and I will go back to how the FM-9 was launch, with zero discussion or announcements to the public. We have not had any issue giving customers support for their FM-9 and the manual says lifetime warranty as does our website on all of our products. I am trying to be as informative as I can but my intent was not to come here and try to sell belt feds to people, if I was I would have the answers you seek.

I am not trying to be difficult I am speaking within the bounds of what I can discuss about our whole business operations which is where a lot of your questions and statements go. I can't respond to most of the things you're saying or asking without divulging sensitive information about how we do what we do and why. I don't think that is a fair position to put me in when I am not the owner of a company and could loose my job is I said the wrong thing. I hoped members of the forum would appreciate me participating on any level. If nothing else my presence and previous dealings should give you enough to know the product is supported.

 

[FreedomJosh]

If You Build It, They Will Come.
Please Build It!
Perhaps you good folks should try to "team up" with Richard Lage?
Could be a serious Win-Win $$$ business venture!?
We/SMG/MG owners really want your awesome products and we have $$$.

It has been many years but I know he purchased parts and links to try making something happen. I am guessing it was something that couldn't be don't how he wanted but that is a guess based off limited information you would have to ask him.

 

[Galil#1]

Cool! Well everyone can see our posts etc.
Bottom-line... where there's a will, there's a way.
Deeds not words.
etc. etc.
Like all the ultra kind banter back and fourth above lol!

So... silly me question... person must already own a full auto M16/M16 lower to enjoy the FM-9? So these folks already have big value item-the M16.
Now for the "poor" folks that don't own a $$$$ M16; however, but do own a MAC 10 / 11, that's the ticket. We love love the MAX 10/15, 11/15... belt fed the next natural step if you will for the MAC title II world IMHO.

 

[Galil#1]

What say you Sir... Richard The Great?!

 

[FreedomJosh]

Cool! Well everyone can see our posts etc.
Bottom-line... where there's a will, there's a way.
Deeds not words.
etc. etc.
Like all the ultra kind banter back and fourth above lol!

So... silly me question... person must already own a full auto M16/M16 lower to enjoy the FM-9? So these folks already have big value item-the M16.
Now for the "poor" folks that don't own a $$$$ M16; however, but do own a MAC 10 / 11, that's the ticket. We love love the MAX 10/15, 11/15... belt fed the next natural step if you will for the MAC title II world IMHO.

You don't need an M16 it works on an AR15 as well just in semi auto. I love full auto belt fed but having 150 rounds even on semi to shoot at targets is fun. With the weight of the setup you have no muzzle rise its like shooting a 22. We had a lot of semi auto sales but yes it is very appealing to someone with an M16, RDIAS or Registered LL. The LL requires modification to the bolt and there was someone that was buying them from us and modifying them for LL owners.

 

[Galil#1]

FreedomJ interesting nice!

 

[A&S Conversions]

First Josh, thank you for being concise as to what you can and can't divulge. Since you work there, how about asking the boss when or even if the flagship product FM-9, will be produced again. Whatever "secret squirrel" stuff the company is developing is however they want to deal with. But to my knowledge the FM-9 has been out of stock for years. A lifetime warranty is great. The FM-9 is listed on your website. But no information as to when or even if the FM-9 will ever be available.

As far as pricing, as I recall there was a fixed barrel system which had an original price of $1,200 or $1,400. I looked for that model, but is not on the website. So I am guessing that if the FM-9 was ever produced again, there wouldn't be a fixed barrel model. Certainly prices would go up after years of increased costs. Since you work for the company I am sure that you are well aware of the previous price structure. So how about asking the boss, when or even if the FM-9 will be back in stock, please?


Scott

ETA While 150 rounds of semi auto is certainly possible, it might not be so much fun. I bought a Beta-C when I decided to buy an M16. I tried it on my semi. I remember thinking at around 85 to 90 rounds "I hope this runs out soon, my trigger finger is getting sore ".

 

[amphibian]

I thought I would bump this thread with this:
I have one of the Maxim Defense delayed blowback setups and going to see if it works with the FM9 hopefully tomorrow.

 

[amphibian]

Shot this setup today...Very smooth and quiet.
I definitely recommend the Maxim Defense delayed blowback setup in conjunction with the FM9.

 

[theduke]

Be nice if they would just build these again.

If they service them , they must have the parts.

The market is still there......Make some more please....

 

[cajun 22]

Amphibian. Video please for the unwashed masses.

 

[Galil#1]

Be nice if they would just build these again.

If they service them , they must have the parts.

The market is still there......Make some more please....

Yes indeed please do... respectfully otherwise something is not quite Kosher...

 

[ericthered]

Shot this setup today...Very smooth and quiet.
I definitely recommend the Maxim Defense delayed blowback setup in conjunction with the FM9.

Not to hijack a thread... (my personal opinion this one is due for a. hijacking as the gentleman who has no say in the operation of a company that is run by someone who it sounds like isn't interested in long production runs, but rather making things that interest him -which is totally understandable by short attention span me- has made it clear what they are willing to plan and what)

I didnt know that anyone was making delayed blowback conversions for 9mm ar15's. I have thought about making something like that for myself. Mainly interested in reducing muzzle flip and making it quieter. After some minor research I ordered one... so thanks for helping me blow money!
How hard is it to charge seeing as how they did not design into it a release for charging?

And yes, we need a video please!

 

[amphibian]

Not to hijack a thread... (my personal opinion this one is due for a. hijacking as the gentleman who has no say in the operation of a company that is run by someone who it sounds like isn't interested in long production runs, but rather making things that interest him -which is totally understandable by short attention span me- has made it clear what they are willing to plan and what)

I didnt know that anyone was making delayed blowback conversions for 9mm ar15's. I have thought about making something like that for myself. Mainly interested in reducing muzzle flip and making it quieter. After some minor research I ordered one... so thanks for helping me blow money!
How hard is it to charge seeing as how they did not design into it a release for charging?

And yes, we need a video please!

Don't know if you saw the thread I started on AR15.com regarding the Maxim RDB here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Maxim-Defense-RDB-review/15-780933/&page=9
I also posted on the FM9 thread here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...e/23-545191/?r=-1&page=2&anc=5987339#i5987339

In the Maxim thread a couple guys are raving about it and a few mentioned it has gotten easier to charge but I'm not sure. Maybe they got used to it. As I posted in that thread, IME, it does a poor job of delaying the action for suppressed usage. My CT9KS which is very quiet on my MP5, UZI, CMMG RDB and even a standard straight blow back 9mm is loud with the Maxim on a standard blowback 9mm AR setup.

However, the FM-9 IME, cycles slower than a typical AR9, I believe because of the additional energy required to pull the belt slows down the cyclic rate. That additional time increases the dwell time and the Maxim RDB is now quiet when used with a suppressor.

In regards to the additional force to charge, it is still there but for a belt fed, who cares.

The FM-9 was fun before but still a little jumpy being straight blowback, but now with the delayed blowback, it is super awesome!....(and super quiet)

Regarding the video requests, maybe next time....I was the only one at the range yesterday.

 

[ericthered]

I did read a bit of that first thread. Im not on any other gun forums then this, so was arriving from internet searches. Very interesting that your belt fed is quieting you down while still being remaining operational. So the RDB works, but could work better. They probably didnt lock it any longer/harder so that the gun could actually be charged.
I would think that I should be getting better results then average as far as suppressed goes as I have a 5.5" barrel its going behind. So my delay time should be longer relative to the bullets time in the barrel then a longer length barrel. It will be a curious experiment.

 

[amphibian]

I did read a bit of that first thread. Im not on any other gun forums then this, so was arriving from internet searches. Very interesting that your belt fed is quieting you down while still being remaining operational. So the RDB works, but could work better. They probably didnt lock it any longer/harder so that the gun could actually be charged.
I would think that I should be getting better results then average as far as suppressed goes as I have a 5.5" barrel its going behind. So my delay time should be longer relative to the bullets time in the barrel then a longer length barrel. It will be a curious experiment.

Are you saying you have a 5.5" belt fed FM9 or just some straight blowback 9mm AR?
A couple people are posting on the ar15.com thread that it is getting easier to charge and still smooth which doesn't make sense to me. I also don't see many people posting on the suppressed performance either. Seems most interest in that thread are people using them in unsuppressed competition builds.

 

[ericthered]

Sorry for the confusion. I have a straight blowback magazine fed 9mm. The beltfed is out of my price range at this point. So yeah, I did kinda jump into a belt fed thread to rattle about my magazine fed pistol!
That is what I was seeing people mention about loosening up. It could be either user perception, or wearing in the contact parts. Or a mixture of both.
As far as suppressed goes, my can collection is paltry, so I wont have expansive or complete testing. But quieting the ar9 down would be nice. When I first put it together I was somewhat disappointed at how loud it is. It is slightly louder then my 8" Uzi suppressed (AR has less bolt mass, less barrel length) and significantly louder then my 4" Walther PPQ suppressed. I dont have a accurate db meter, but I do have audio equipment that allows me to accurately measure relative differences between different configurations. So should be able to express it in a percentage of performance format.

It appears your FM-9 setup is running about a 10" or so barrel? And for your unsatisfactory magazine fed you mentioned earlier, was it a full length or short?

 

[FreedomJosh]

First Josh, thank you for being concise as to what you can and can't divulge. Since you work there, how about asking the boss when or even if the flagship product FM-9, will be produced again. Whatever "secret squirrel" stuff the company is developing is however they want to deal with. But to my knowledge the FM-9 has been out of stock for years. A lifetime warranty is great. The FM-9 is listed on your website. But no information as to when or even if the FM-9 will ever be available.

As far as pricing, as I recall there was a fixed barrel system which had an original price of $1,200 or $1,400. I looked for that model, but is not on the website. So I am guessing that if the FM-9 was ever produced again, there wouldn't be a fixed barrel model. Certainly prices would go up after years of increased costs. Since you work for the company I am sure that you are well aware of the previous price structure. So how about asking the boss, when or even if the FM-9 will be back in stock, please?


Scott

ETA While 150 rounds of semi auto is certainly possible, it might not be so much fun. I bought a Beta-C when I decided to buy an M16. I tried it on my semi. I remember thinking at around 85 to 90 rounds "I hope this runs out soon, my trigger finger is getting sore ".

I don't just work here I was employee number 1. I designed the original website, the logo for Freedom, the box for the belt fed. I know a lot and I can't share it. I don't need to ask the boss on things I know the answer to. I have told you previously we discuss the belt fed, have ideas and that's where it is at.

You keep saying flagship... I am not sure what defines a product as flagship. The FX-9 if you go buy volume produced is our flagship product. If you go buy how long it has been in production then the FX-9 is still our flag ship. More people know about the FX-9 than the FM-9 but we are still humble and know that a lot of people don't even know we exist from either product.

I do appreciate the conversation Scott but you keep asking for information that I can't discuss and won't change my stance on that. You are welcome to believe the belt fed will never be produced again, I have said that isn't the case but because I don't give a timeline of when, where and why to anyone asking I am ok if they don't believe what I have mentioned.

The pricing on the fixed barrel model was $1495 retail. That one I can tell you wont be made again as there was not enough demand. One just sold on gunbroker for $1821 and an elite model sold for just under 4k.

150 round belt bag does not need to be full to use, you're free to load 10 rounds just like any other magazine that isnt loaded to it's max capacity. I understand trigger finger fatigue I prefer full auto as well.