Ares Defence Systems Ares - 16 AMG-2 in testing by U.S. Army

[AresShrike]

The Department of the Army awarded this $104,898 contract to Ares Defense Systems Inc. for Guns, through 30 Mm.

The contract was signed on May 30, 2014 and ended on September 30, 2014.

that's for the full auto version of the Ares Shrike/MCR, being tested as a possible replacement for the M249, or at least to "supplement" it, like the Marine Corps M27 IAR.

The Ares MCR is a belt fed/mag fed upper, with quick change barrel (as little as 3 seconds), much improved bolt lugs, and gas piston operation (of course)

Prices should skyrocket if it gets adopted, and I think it will.

 

[smdub]

Interesting to hear. Don't think its nearly reliable enough to get adopted in its current form. If adopted it would only make Ares customer service care even less about is civilian customers Though that would give us a good source for new pre-stretched links :lol

 

[bac0nfat]

Doesn't Ares still owe uppers to the original people that placed preorders?

 

[Beowulf]

I thought they had fully caught up with back orders?

I was considering picking one up, maybe next year, now that I have my M16 (or I will once I get that damn stamp back any day now). I know they are pricey, but since this is the only belt fed option that I can do without modding the receiver (or going to jail, ala XMG), it seems appealing. I think Rueben Mendiola has them in stock, so you shouldn't have to deal with backorders.

The question is whether the Shrike is worth the extra $1000 over the MCR. If I understand correctly, the big difference seems to be the heat sink.

 

[AresShrike]

I'd love to hear what is so unreliable about it. Most often, the "unreliability" I've seen comes from people who don't buy the complete gun, and put an non-milspec lower on it, and don't put the proper buffer, spring, and buffer tube on the lower.
As for reliable enough to bet adopted, the M249, when using magazines is rightfully notorious as being highly unreliable. It is only reliable with belts.
As far as I know, they've been caught up for a long time.
I had six original Shrikes, and four MCRs. I never had one with the heat sink on the barrel, but from what I've heard, it's not worth it, meaning, it's not much more effective than without it, but, barrel cooling on the one inch thick barrel is great with that handguard.
No difference between the MCR's and the Shrikes, other than the inscription on the side. The MCR was originally made to lower production costs (passing the savings to you!!! Ha! Ha! Ha!) I never saw any differences at all.
The belt/magazine feed, gas piston operation, super-fast barrel change, much stronger bolt lugs, option for open bolt firing, meet all the criteria for a top Squad Automatic.
You can't have that old direct impingment on a SAW, those damn gas tubes will melt a whole thru them pretty quickly, and the heat put almost directly on the bolt lugs is the major cause of broken lugs.
But the Ares design, is a highly reliable weapon, (relatively speaking, it's not a Galil!!!!)
The one thing I really, really, don't like about it, is the charging handle has a lug, pulls back the bolt (of course), and it's got a whole thru it that the operating rod goes through. That walls of that whole, are so thin, that, in my opinion, they could easily break if the charging handle over-enthusiastically slammed back, to often, leaving you "Dead in the water". I talked to the inventor, Jeffrey Herring about it. He still thinks that part is strong enough, I still disagree. (but, who am I?)
I don't mean to offend any AR guys out there with the direct impingment comments, but that's why you'll never see a DI SAW.
Personally, I'm a Galil guy, though I envy the AR's fast mag changes, and "slightly" faster speed on target (of the lighter guns anyway) That's a huge advantage, for sure. Those "fractions of a second" can make "all the difference!!"

I do agree about the possible (probable?) loss of care for the civilian market, though the one time I had a problem, Jeffrey Herring himself got on the phone, and "talked me through it". Thanks Jeff! (I rather not talk about - the problem!)
I would wonder if there even would be a civilian market, if they get a big government contract! Maybe not.

 

[dgleavitt]

I thought customers were having problems running new linked ammo through the shrike. I have seen adds for ammo link stretching tools on sturm specifically for the shrike.

Dont get me wrong, I want the shrike but every time I had 5000 saved up, I ended up getting another MAC or Uzi.


Also, what is the open bolt option? Did ares start making a fcg like the colt lmg had?

 

[SSBiggun]

 

[hfoster223]

Unless the reliability has been improved, we better stick the 249.

 

[AresShrike]

I don't know anything about any ammo link stretching tools for the Shrike. That might help if you install an upper on a lower that isn't properly set up.
If you don't use the heavy recoil spring, and H3 buffer, the gun was designed for, you'll have problems feed problems with belts.
The open bolt "module" is available from Ares Defense, if you've got the tax stamp. It allows the Shrike/MCR to fire from an open bolt.
Of course, even a regular semi auto AR can be made to hold it's bolt open, at any time, allowing the chamber to cool, but the semi won't actually fire from the open bolt, until you hit the bolt release.
The video shows a modified lower, and an Ares upper. Who knows how that lower is set up?
"unless the reliability has been improved...." Again, brother, too non-specific. Not really saying you're wrong, but, maybe more like, we'd better really ring it out real good before we give it to our troops, then, yes, sure.

I'm no expert guys, I'm just saying, if the Defense Department, after quite extensive testing, thinks they are worth buying a larger batch for more testing, it sounds like it might be a serious contender for a light weight weapon to fill in a "between" role, between the M-4, and the M249.
Too much negative feedback from people who haven't had first hand experience with it, or just threw the upper on an AR lower, without finding out what the lower needs to have, to run right with heavy belts.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone, it's definitely not my intent.

 

[dgleavitt]

What is modified on the lower in the video? It looks like it has a full fence so it could be an A1 lower but not a SP1 conversion.

 

[USSarizona]

I have read about Shrike uppers damaging lower receives if they are not (broken in correctly?) due to the bolt hitting the back of the lower. Can anyone speak into this? Other than having the correct spring, buffer, etc. is there a process you have to go through to ensure proper function? Other than malfunctions, if you don't have the proper spring, buffer, etc. installed, can the Shrike actually damage the lower receiver?

 

[AresShrike]

dgleavitt,
I said "who know how that lower is set up". It looks like a different lower, the stock isn't from Ares, which doesn't mean necessarily that it's not an Ares lower, or that it is.
If the buffer tube is not just the right length, you'll have problems. LMT buffer tubes are best, as they are truly Milspec. Don't use the Bushmaster tubes, they're a little too long.
If the buffer spring is not strong enough, you'll have problems.,(feeding belts) It's not a standard spring.
If the buffer is not a heavy H3, you'll have problems,(feeding belts) It's not the standard buffer.
You can't just throw any lower on it, and expect it to run reliably, especially with stripping rounds out of links, and pulling heavy belts.
May fed, it's a lot less "finicky", and you could use those 100 round dual drum setups.
You'd need to know that it's totally as Ares would suggest running it, before you could use that video as proof that the product is "unreliable".
The video proves absolutely nothing, without knowledge of the setup.
If the gun is setup wright, it's pretty reliable. If it's setup wrong, it won't be, especially running belts.
I'm simply stating that if the U.S. Army's procurement people are buying a sizable batch or guns, after initial testing was previously done, for further testing, and it was, then there's a good chance the system is a lot more reliable than some, with little to no experience with it, would suggest.

 

[ftldrben]

Interesting to hear. Don't think its nearly reliable enough to get adopted in its current form. If adopted it would only make Ares customer service care even less about is civilian customers Though that would give us a good source for new pre-stretched links :lol

I've got 6 M16's in the arsenal with three different LMG uppers that run flawlessly using Beta C's. I also own and run almost every significant SMG you would want to own. I work on them all, tuning mags and bolts for max reliability and speed. I like 'tuning' machine guns...

Then I buy an MCR and, after months of frustration, I think I've met my match. STRETCHING EVERY LINK (know how long that takes?) is what it's come down to and testing multiple buffer tubes and springs, as well. Then you need hot enough ammo, I FINALLY hear. Not that it says anything about that in the manual...

Still, the best I've done is approx. 150 rounds before one hung it up. That was with M855.

My MCR has nearly ended up in the canal behind my house on more than one occasion. I don't want to spring for an M60 but this 'cheap way' into belt fed machine guns isn't worth the effort. I can't imagine how much more I'd be disappointed had I waited for years on the list for the first Shrikes.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Here is my wife running a 500 rd burst with my water cooled Valkyrie Armaments belt fed conversion. I have about the same money in the custom water cooled upper and the Valkyrie Armaments belt fed conversion as I would pay for the retail of a MCR. YMMV.

Valkyrie Armaments belt fed conversion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFcxuOzsoXA

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RFcxuOzsoXA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Some day I'll figure out how to put the video in my posts.

Scott

 

[SSBiggun]

\ That is my 9 year wait ARES shrike on my Colt M-16A1 lower with Tom Cassidy untight saw box. with ARES spring and AAC rate buffer

 

[Beowulf]

\ That is my 9 year wait ARES shrike on my Colt M-16A1 lower with Tom Cassidy untight saw box. with ARES spring and AAC rate buffer

Did I hear someone shout "Wolverines!" in the background of that video?

 

[SSBiggun]

Did I hear someone shout "Wolverines!" in the background of that video?

Yea, my knuckleheaded shootin buddies..

 

[Beowulf]

Yea, my knuckleheaded shootin buddies..

So is your Shrike still treating you well? I'm still interested in getting one, though my plans will have to be delayed a bit since I just had to replace my truck.

 

[AresShrike]

SSBiggun,
Are you using an LMT buffer tube, like Ares Defense does?
Other than the exhorbitant price, is there any reason your not using the Ares Defense Shrike heavy buffer, instead of that AAC unit?
Both of those can make a huge difference in reliability.

 

[SSBiggun]

I only use the AAC . I have tried a dozen different set up's/ C,H, H2, H3, I even have the LMG hydro with cut down MG-34 spring. Shrike isn't the only upper I run and the AAC Ares spring works really well with my 9mm set up too. Its a Colt buffer tube And I have enough room to not run the quarter spacer in there. I still haven't upgraded my feed tray . I have the old 249 modded tray.