Are there any registered Mac 10 bolts?

[thumpy]

Hey fellas I was thinking about this today… I’ve never seen a transferable registered bolt for a m10 before. Was curious if there were any floating around? Seen a handful of post sample bolts.

 

[Hey...]

Never heard of one.

 

[slimshady]

Not sure how that would work? Unlike the Uzi, there is no denial feature to keep from dropping a FA bolt into a semi auto. Plus the mechanism that would allow FA fire is in the receiver, not an unregulated trigger housing. So registering a bolt would only be practical for a "stutter gun", where there is nothing to stop the firing until it empties the magazine.

Modifying an open bolt semi FCG to FA would not require a different bolt, and with the registered bolt removed you still have an MG with the original bolt. A closed bolt semi might be a possible host, but you would have to come up with an original design FCG that uses the semi auto FCG pins to mount it.

 

[thumpy]

Not sure how that would work? Unlike the Uzi, there is no denial feature to keep from dropping a FA bolt into a semi auto. Plus the mechanism that would allow FA fire is in the receiver, not an unregulated trigger housing. So registering a bolt would only be practical for a "stutter gun", where there is nothing to stop the firing until it empties the magazine.

Modifying an open bolt semi FCG to FA would not require a different bolt, and with the registered bolt removed you still have an MG with the original bolt. A closed bolt semi might be a possible host, but you would have to come up with an original design FCG that uses the semi auto FCG pins to mount it.

It would work just like the post sample m10 bolts do… in the semi auto open bolt guns not the closed bolt. There where I believe close to 50-60k of them made before being outlawed. It would also be less modifications needed to the Mac then a uzi conversion does.

 

[slimshady]

I'm unfamiliar with the semi open bolt FCG, if there is a trip surface on the semi bolt that activates the disconnect function that can be removed on a fa conversion one I can see how that would work. Otherwise it would have been easier to just modify the FCG. Post ban I can see the desire to keep a valuable semi auto variant unchanged so that makes sense.

 

[Hey...]

Here’s a semi that’s been converted. Towards the end of the video up close you see a semi-fire control yet the bolt is held back oddly.

 

[thumpy]

I feel like this is starting to get off topic I’m asking about are there any registered transferable m10 bolts if it’s not related to that it’s not info I’m looking for thanks.

 

[Homer]

No. The lower receiver is the part that's registered.

 

[A&S Conversions]

It would work just like the post sample m10 bolts do… in the semi auto open bolt guns not the closed bolt. There where I believe close to 50-60k of them made before being outlawed. It would also be less modifications needed to the Mac then a uzi conversion does.

There is no difference between the upper receivers of an open bolt subgun and an open bolt semi auto pistol. The open bolt semi fire control is on a shaft in a "U" shaped frame, welded inside the lower receiver of a semi auto open bolt lower receiver. The semi auto front fire control shaft holds the trip in the semi auto position and the open bolt sear. Both the full auto and semi auto open bolt guns used with the same bolt and sear. So to register the bolt as the conversion part would be a waste of time.

To convert an open bolt semi to full auto, the internal frame welded into the lower receiver for the fire control shaft which holds the sear would be removed and a hole through the lower receiver for the selector pin or Eliminator pin would be drilled. The holes are of two different diameters. Those holes in the lower receiver is the difference between a full auto (has the holes) and the semi auto lower receiver (without the holes). So it would seem to me that registering an open bolt, bolt as a conversion device (machinegun) would not convert a semi auto open bolt into a machinegun. Modifying the lower receiver would. YMMV.

Scott

ETA could someone have registered a bolt on a Form 1, back in the day? Possibly, but I have never seen one for sale by itself. It would be a "collection of parts". And would be "married" to the gun that it was in because the lower receiver that was modified to make it fire in auto would be considered an unregistered machinegun without the registered bolt inside it. Like converting a semi auto AR-15 with an unregistered DIAS but the unmodified lower receiver was registered as a registered receiver machinegun.

 

[Villafuego]

I feel like this is starting to get off topic I’m asking about are there any registered transferable m10 bolts if it’s not related to that it’s not info I’m looking for thanks.

The conversation is relevant to your question because the folks here are trying to determine if a "registered bolt" that would convert an OBS to FA with no modifications to the receiver or FCG is even possible.

The answer is yes ..... by simply milling away 5/8" of the lower (L -opposite ejection port side) portion of the bolt that activates the trip , the bolt would become a drop-in conversion device ..... with no other modifications to the host gun ....it would be FA only.

Are there any registered ones out there? Who knows ....I've never seen one in 35+ years of owning/shooting these things

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Not sure how that would work? Unlike the Uzi, there is no denial feature to keep from dropping a FA bolt into a semi auto. Plus the mechanism that would allow FA fire is in the receiver, not an unregulated trigger housing. So registering a bolt would only be practical for a "stutter gun", where there is nothing to stop the firing until it empties the magazine.

Modifying an open bolt semi FCG to FA would not require a different bolt, and with the registered bolt removed you still have an MG with the original bolt. A closed bolt semi might be a possible host, but you would have to come up with an original design FCG that uses the semi auto FCG pins to mount it.

You can very easily make a drop in full auto bolt for an open bolt semi, you just grind off a little bit of the front end of the left side of the bolt where it contacts the disconnector trip. When you takeoff enough material so that it no longer hits the trip, you have a full auto only bolt that drops into the open bolt semi, without any modification at all to the fire control group. It is not a runaway gun like you are referring to. It is a machine gun, full auto only, and it will stop shooting when you take your finger off the trigger. I’m sure this is probably what OP is referring to, that said, I don’t know of any registered examples. It would be the equivalent of a “registered bolt” uzi or tec-9, where the bolt itself is the MG, and it can be dropped into any host gun (like a DIAS). I’m not sure if this requires the host gun to be registered along with the bolt or what, but I do know that registered Uzi bolts absolutely exist, and one of the benefits is that you can always drop it into a new receiver from what I understand.

The actual full conversion to select fire SMG is so simple that most gunsmiths back in the day would just drill the hole and do it right. Nobody ever imagined that MACs would be a high priced commodity, there was no desire or need for a drop in bolt to prolong the life of the receiver in those days… if the gun fell apart you just bought a new one for 200 bucks.


Edit: looks the like guy right above me beat me to it.

 

[thumpy]

There is no difference between the upper receivers of an open bolt subgun and an open bolt semi auto pistol. The open bolt semi fire control is on a shaft in a "U" shaped frame, welded inside the lower receiver of a semi auto open bolt lower receiver. The semi auto front fire control shaft holds the trip in the semi auto position and the open bolt sear. Both the full auto and semi auto open bolt guns used with the same bolt and sear. So to register the bolt as the conversion part would be a waste of time.

To convert an open bolt semi to full auto, the internal frame welded into the lower receiver for the fire control shaft which holds the sear would be removed and a hole through the lower receiver for the selector pin or Eliminator pin would be drilled. The holes are of two different diameters. Those holes in the lower receiver is the difference between a full auto (has the holes) and the semi auto lower receiver (without the holes). So it would seem to me that registering an open bolt, bolt as a conversion device (machinegun) would not convert a semi auto open bolt into a machinegun. Modifying the lower receiver would. YMMV.

Scott

ETA could someone have registered a bolt on a Form 1, back in the day? Possibly, but I have never seen one for sale by itself. It would be a "collection of parts". And would be "married" to the gun that it was in because the lower receiver that was modified to make it fire in auto would be considered an unregistered machinegun without the registered bolt inside it. Like converting a semi auto AR-15 with an unregistered DIAS but the unmodified lower receiver was registered as a registered receiver machinegun.

There are many examples of post sample m10 bolts floating around that require zero modification to the lower. So no you are wrong there is nothing you’d need todo to the lower to get it to work.

 

[brenbuilds]

I have never seen, nor heard of one. M10 bolts were considered replaceable parts; early ones were even cheap castings with equally cheap cocking knobs. An old style M10 .45 ACP bolt will not drop into an upper designed for the later claw extractor without notching the barrel. Yes, you can perform conversion; there are at least five different means to make it purely F/A. Modifying the trip lever, disconnector arm, etc.

There really wasn't a net benefit to registering a bolt when you could simply register the receiver on a firearm that was quite inexpensive at the time.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Hey fellas I was thinking about this today… I’ve never seen a transferable registered bolt for a m10 before. Was curious if there were any floating around? Seen a handful of post sample bolts.

There are many examples of post sample m10 bolts floating around that require zero modification to the lower. So no you are wrong there is nothing you’d need todo to the lower to get it to work.

Where have you seen all these Post Sample registered M10 bolts? I have never seen an ad for such an item. It is very rare but I have seen Post Sample lowers or complete guns. I would like to learn something new. Please link some of the ads for these registered bolts that don't require modifications to the semi auto host gun.

As posted above a semi auto can be modified to run full auto. But those modifications makes the semi auto lower into a machinegun. Because if the registered bolt was removed and replaced with a standard full auto bolt, the gun would fire full auto. So if the semi auto must be modified, then it becomes a "collection of parts". So whatever parts must be modified, must be able to be moved to another semi auto. Those parts wouldn't need to be modified if there was some special modification to the registered bolt which would allow an unmodified semi auto gun to fire full auto without modification to the semi auto pistol. I don't know how that would be possible. But again, I am open to learning. Please explain.

There is also the fact that such a bolt limit the configurations of the M10. I guess as long as the serial # and manufacturer' name were not on the top of the bolt, then the extra weight for a Lage original caliber upper could be bolted to such a registered bolt as the Max-10 upper is based on a standard steel bolt with two threaded holes in the top of the bolt, to bolt on an additional weight to slow the cyclic rate.

Scott

 

[Galil#1]

No.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Where have you seen all these Post Sample registered M10 bolts? I have never seen an ad for such an item. It is very rare but I have seen Post Sample lowers or complete guns. I would like to learn something new. Please link some of the ads for these registered bolts that don't require modifications to the semi auto host gun.

As posted above a semi auto can be modified to run full auto. But those modifications makes the semi auto lower into a machinegun. Because if the registered bolt was removed and replaced with a standard full auto bolt, the gun would fire full auto. So if the semi auto must be modified, then it becomes a "collection of parts". So whatever parts must be modified, must be able to be moved to another semi auto. Those parts wouldn't need to be modified if there was some special modification to the registered bolt which would allow an unmodified semi auto gun to fire full auto without modification to the semi auto pistol. I don't know how that would be possible. But again, I am open to learning. Please explain.

There is also the fact that such a bolt limit the configurations of the M10. I guess as long as the serial # and manufacturer' name were not on the top of the bolt, then the extra weight for a Lage original caliber upper could be bolted to such a registered bolt as the Max-10 upper is based on a standard steel bolt with two threaded holes in the top of the bolt, to bolt on an additional weight to slow the cyclic rate.

Scott

An unmodified semi auto open bolt receiver will fire full auto just by dropping a modified bolt into it. It’s no different than the registered bolt Uzi guns, except for the fact that NO registered mac bolts exist post sample or otherwise, that I know of.

The lower does not have to be modified at all for full auto fire. You don’t even have to touch the lower. All you have to do is remove about a 1/4” of material from the front 1” of the left side of the bolt. It is one of a handful of ways to deactivate the disconnector trip and get full auto fire.

When you remove this material from the bolt, it makes it so the bolt no longer hits the trip, which no longer actuates the disconnector, and it fires full auto only.

It can be reversed and the gun brought right back to OEM condition by dropping a normal
Bolt back in, the lower was not modified so once the normal bolt is re-installed you have an open bolt semi again.

This is the most popular illegal conversion method because it requires zero modification to the gun (lower) itself and is reversible with just the swap of a bolt.

So a drop in full auto conversion bolt can and does exist for the open bolt semi M10, but I do not think any of them have ever been registered transferable or post sample or otherwise. Prior to 86, anybody doing a legit on the books conversion would have just done it right and drilled the hole.

 

[BlackBelt]

I have never seen nor heard of a registered or post-sample mac bolt. That doesnt mean they dont exist, but I would think they would be a very rare bird to come across.

 

[mwarnick1]

“https://youtu.be/hhJd2sKaY6E?si=5_2tjDyrmogBPm-d”

I can’t get the link to embed properly for some reason. If you remove the quotes at the front and back of the link it should work

If you read the comments they talk about the pistol and bolt

 

[thumpy]

Where have you seen all these Post Sample registered M10 bolts? I have never seen an ad for such an item. It is very rare but I have seen Post Sample lowers or complete guns. I would like to learn something new. Please link some of the ads for these registered bolts that don't require modifications to the semi auto host gun.

As posted above a semi auto can be modified to run full auto. But those modifications makes the semi auto lower into a machinegun. Because if the registered bolt was removed and replaced with a standard full auto bolt, the gun would fire full auto. So if the semi auto must be modified, then it becomes a "collection of parts". So whatever parts must be modified, must be able to be moved to another semi auto. Those parts wouldn't need to be modified if there was some special modification to the registered bolt which would allow an unmodified semi auto gun to fire full auto without modification to the semi auto pistol. I don't know how that would be possible. But again, I am open to learning. Please explain.

There is also the fact that such a bolt limit the configurations of the M10. I guess as long as the serial # and manufacturer' name were not on the top of the bolt, then the extra weight for a Lage original caliber upper could be bolted to such a registered bolt as the Max-10 upper is based on a standard steel bolt with two threaded holes in the top of the bolt, to bolt on an additional weight to slow the cyclic rate.

Scott

Multiple YouTube videos of people demoing post sample m10 bolts. Seen a few trade hands over the years on sturm an other places no law letter legally registered mg bolts.

You are wrong again no modifications have to be done to the gun. I’m not trying to debate this. Go do your own research or remain wrong. I was asking if any one has seen one that was transferable… that is the question.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Multiple YouTube videos of people demoing post sample m10 bolts. Seen a few trade hands over the years on sturm an other places no law letter legally registered mg bolts.

You are wrong again no modifications have to be done to the gun. I’m not trying to debate this. Go do your own research or remain wrong. I was asking if any one has seen one that was transferable… that is the question.

Can you post a link to one of these YouTube videos? I have watched damn near every single YouTube video that so much as even shows a MAC-10 and I’ve never seen anyone demonstrating the drop in full auto bolt conversion. Only time I’ve ever even seen it mentioned in a YouTube video is that video from iraqveteran where that old guy Barry tells his story about working at RPB and briefly explains some of the illegal conversion methods people used to do.

I am well aware that a bolt conversion can be done, it takes 2 minutes with a grinding wheel… but I have never seen a registered machine gun, transferable or post sample, that was built using a bolt conversion vs a properly modified fire control group/receiver. Never seen one of the converted bolts for sale like that either, not even in dozens of 1980s shotgun news issues. I’ve seen them sold unknowingly on gunbroker multiple times in parts kits… the sellers had no idea the bolt had been tampered with I’m sure.

I have seen many post sample MACs for sale, but all have been done properly, either built up from scratch with a folded flat, and drilled for the selector switch… or open bolt semi auto RPB, drilled for the selector switch. I have never seen a registered full auto MAC that didn’t have the holes drilled and selector switch installed. Back in the day when it was legal to convert the gun it was a 150 dollar receiver, people weren’t trying to preserve their shitty dime a dozen MAC frame by doing a full auto only bolt conversion…. They just did it right and drilled the holes and had a select fire gun.

That bolt conversion is just a quick and dirty way to convert the gun to full auto only and be able to restore it back to its factory semi auto configuration like it never happened. It is almost always done illegally as far as I know. If someone was doing the paperwork to convert an RPB, or build a post sample from scratch, they’re just gonna drill the damn hole and do it right, it takes 2 seconds.