Anyone have a buyer fail to apply for the transfer?

OkieinTexas

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I arranged to sell a subgun, one individual to another. For one half the selling price, I gave the buyer a copy of my form 4, so he would have the serial # and addresses, promising to meet him at his convenience, to sign the completed application. 4 - 6 weeks later, I contacted him and he had not yet filled out the application (warning sign #1). He met me a couple of days later with a now-filled out application and I signed it. It's now been a further 8 months and I called the NFA asking whether or not the application was pending or approved and they've never received his application (unless it's been received in the last 60 days).

I've called and left messages a couple of times, offering his money back, no explanation neccessary, and have gotten no response.

Anybody else ever start a NFA transfer and then wonder if dealing with the other party was a good idea?
 

Mike85220

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Some deals have really made me wonder. Yours is a really odd situation. It makes me wonder if the guy has set the deal at a very low priority or what.
 

nutinauniversalshell

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seems like you have to put a time limit on stuff or else some people take forever.

my dad sold a mill and the guy didnt pay the last couple hundred or pick it up on time (its been months now). so i guess he made a few hundred for a little delay on getting rid of it.

call a few more times then send a certified letter. if the guy doesnt get back with you, relist it.

just clearly give him a time line in the call/message and letter on getting back with you or forfeiting his money this far.

Im going on 3 years of payments for some stuff right now (down to the last 400-500 and it could be a couple more years before this os over (stuff shipped as it is paid off). I give timelines now, but I told the guy he could make payments. I think he might die before its all done...if so I guess Ill still have a couple carcanos.

Sometimes you just gotta do what is reasonable.
 

rkcal22

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Before you re list it or offer to sell to someone else why not go to the persons home ? If he was able to come to you twice you can go to him once. There can be any amount of reasons the paperwork wasn't done. Death-medical-legal-jail-he lost your number-witness protection -his girlfriend slapped him upside of the head and he forgot he bought it etc etc . I had a friend who sold his home and took $95,000 down payment. After months of no contact he finds out the buyer left the country because the Interpol was after him for being in the Mafia. He died many years after the sale without ever having to give the money back.
 

Noah Zark

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nutinauniversalshell said:
seems like you have to put a time limit on stuff or else some people take forever.

just clearly give him a time line in the call/message and letter on getting back with you or forfeiting his money this far.


"Nut" raises a good point. In any contract, there must be a meeting of the minds on the item and price, and a time by which the terms of the contract must be executed by both parties.

That said, remember that verbal contracts are not worth the paper they aren't written on.

The following is a contract that I've used for both selling and buying NFA items:

Disclaimer: The following agreement is provided as an example and meant to be a starting point for similar documents used by others in similar transactions. The purpose for an agreement of sale is to get everything on paper as to actions to be performed by each party and when, with some understanding as to a final date of closure for the deal. NFA transactions take time, and during that time things can be forgotten. An agreement of sale keeps the parties' actions and responsibilities in the open.

That said, by posting this example sale agreement document in no way do I offer any kind of legal advice whatsoever. I do not warrant that this agreement is legal and binding in any particular state or locality. Individuals are cautioned to speak to their attorneys.



Agreement of Sale
This Agreement covers the sale of one (1) Sterling Mk4/L2A3 type submachine gun; S/N XXXXXXX, manufactured by DLO, Stanton, CT; with two as-new 34 rd magazines of Sterling manufacture,

Seller:

John Doe
789 Any Street
Hometown, TX 77777


Buyer:

Noah Zark
123 Buckscaguda St
Dagusgahonda, PA 15853


The subject Sterling Mk4/L2A3 s/n XXXXXXX is complete and functional as described and depicted in conversations and e-mails between Seller and Buyer dated 2-7 November 2005 and photographs conveyed therein from Seller to Buyer, with noted finish defects outlined in the photos by the Seller as acknowledged by the Buyer as being acceptable.

Buyer acknowledges that Seller has provided a photocopy of the approved Form 4 Application and/or requisite Change of Address forms originally transfering the subject Sterling Mk4/L2A3 to the Seller as proof of Seller's legal title to the subject firearm, and thus right to sell the subject firearm.

Seller affirms and Buyer acknowledges that the subject firearm is complete and functional as of 9 Nov 2005, but that it is being sold “as-is” with respect to physical condition. “Complete and functional” is defined as the ability to fire three (3) magazines containing 33 or 34 rounds of Winchester Value Pack 115 grain 9mm commercial ammunition for a total of one hundred (100) rounds without failure, upon receipt by the Buyer’s in-state licensed transfer dealer. Should the weapon fail to perform as described, the Seller agrees to pay for any necessary repairs by and transportation to and from a qualified gunsmith acceptable to both parties, cost of repairs and transport not to exceed $750.

TERMS:

Purchase price is $XXXX. Buyer to make two payments of $YYYY each, in certified funds; either bank check or USPS Money Orders being acceptable. The first payment shall accompany this agreement, and be mailed to the seller on or about 9 November, 2005. The second payment shall be mailed on or prior to 15 December 2005, and upon receipt of the second installment by the Seller the purchase price shall be considered paid in full, and so acknowledged by the Seller to the Buyer in writing via postal mail or E-mail at time of receipt.

Seller shall initiate transfer in a timely manner (defined as within one week of receipt of full payment) the complete Sterling Mk4/L2A3 s/n XXXXXXX and two (2) magazines to the Buyer’s in-state licensed transfer dealer:

John A (Jack) Mehoff
456 Center St
Quehanna, PA 16739
FFL# XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


Transfer application document(s) are to be prepared by Jack Mehoff and supplied to the Seller for signature. Seller shall communicate the certified mail tracking number of the transfer paperwork to the Buyer within 24 hrs of mailing the transfer paperwork. This transfer from an individual to a licensed dealer typically takes XXX weeks but in any event is expected to be completed by Day, Month, Year as evidenced by the signed and dated approval of the transfer application by the ATF NFA Firearms Branch.
Buyer to provide the Seller with a prepaid shipping label to convey the subject firearm to the licensed transfer dealer Jack Mehoff upon ATF NFA Branch transfer approval. At the time of actual receipt by the in-state transfer dealer Jack Mehoff and verification of functionality of the subject firearm by Mr Mehoff as defined above, the sale shall be considered finalized between the Seller and the Buyer.

Non-Performance: This Agreement of Sale shall be considering binding upon both parties and covered by the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Should the Seller fail to perform for any reason, including "change of mind," the Seller shall immediately refund the full purchase price to the Buyer in certified funds. The Seller shall also refund any and all expenses incurred by the Buyer, and shall pay to the Buyer a $500 non-performance penalty. Likewise, should the Buyer fail to perform for any reason, including "change of mind," the Buyer shall be entitled to refund of all funds paid to date, except a $500 non-performance penalty shall be withheld by the Seller. Disputes arising from non-performance requiring judicial action shall be decided in the applicable court having jurisdiction over Elk County, PA.

Delay in transfer created in the usual and customary processing of transfer paperwork by NFA Branch, 244 Needy Rd, Martinsburg, WV shall not constitute failure to perform on the part of any party to this document.

Signed:



_____________________________ ________________________
John Doe, Seller Noah Zark, Buyer

Date: ___________ Date: ____________

Signed and executed copies to be retained by both parties.
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You're welcome.

Noah
 

snipertn

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There used to be a c3 dealer in Nashville. He had a Rem Nylon 66 that had a integral Sionics suppressor. The weapon was bought, paid for and transfered. The buyer had been contacted several times. The weapon sat in his safe for over 15 yrs before the buyer finally picked it up.

I wanted that weapon but he couldnt sell it.

Just my luck, day late and a dollar short.
 

bama_brannon

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My Vector uzi was ordered as part of a group buy back when Vector still had uzi's in stock. All of the uzi's were then transferred to the buyers except one. The paperwork was never completed. The buyer had paid in full for the firearm but never completed the paperwork for transfer. The gun slowly made its' way to the back of the dealers safe and was forgotten. Six years pass and the firearm is rediscovered in the dealers safe at which point the dealer tells the owner it's time to poop or get off the pot. The owner then lists the firearm on subguns.com for less than the going rate and I get a killer deal on a new uzi.

Of course things did not go smoothly in the transaction because the gun owner was just a psycho. Once he received funds from me he never bothered to confirm to the dealer he had been paid. I had to get documents from my back showing the certified funds clearing to the owners accounts. The dealer knew what kind of idiot the original gun owner was so he went ahead with the transfer to me.
 

Jmacken37

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Noah,

Thanks for the example. I especially appreciated the name of the dealer!

Jake
 
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