60rd Unity AK Quad mag issue....

[Jack007]

Since I had a request to post details from another UT post...

Sometime ago, I ordered a couple of the Bosnian made Unity 60rd Quad mags for the AK.
They are available from a number of sources...I purchased mine from RTG since I have had such good experiences with them over the years. They also have been a good friend to this site, specifically the Uzi forums.

My shooting session was a short one. I literally couldn't load more than 12 or so rounds before the mags seized up solid.
Not believing I could get TWO defective mags in a row, I suspected that somehow the ammo might be to blame. Naturally it was the ONLY ammo I had with me. Wolf Military Classic. I can't remember exactly when I purchased it but it was several years back. I bought a LOT of ammo in anticipation of Hillary, and then more after the spate of mass shootings.

I communicated my problem with Robert at RTG and he confirmed what I suspected. It has to do with the lacquer on certain lots of Russian steel cased ammo. Apparently it's slightly thicker and perhaps even of a stickier texture. There's no particular brand. While that's immaterial to it's performance out of a Kalashnikov, the super tight tolerances of the Unity mags don't like it. As these rounds reach the inner guides, they start to hang up.
I suppose one could graphite them up like a Beta C Mag, or even give them a dousing of silicon or WD40, but that's more than I care to mess with.

I dug out some other ammo: Wolf (with the white wolf logo), Finnish Lapua, some Norinco ChiCom milsurp brass wash, and even some commercial Norinco brown lacquered steel case lead core, and they ALL loaded up to 60rds.

I did some research and found that users of these mags report that loading them and leaving them loaded for a week or two makes them a bit easier to load, and any (RARE) feeding issues disappeared after running them a few times. In other words, a break in period. Not unusual with some polymer mags.

I plan on keeping mine for now. I also plan on some extensive testing as soon as the weather cooperates. I like the idea of a 60rd mag that I can leave loaded up for SHTF scenarios. I have a few 70rd drums and these mags are MUCH easier to maneuver. I could clamp two 40rd sticks together, but if things are going south in a hurry, I prefer the extra 20rds in lieu of a mag change. They remind me of my SureFire 60rd .556 which I absloutely LOVE!

So bottom line.... If you get any of these mags, be sure and try loading them with your ammo of choice BEFORE socking them away. If you can load past 15 or 20 you're probably good to go. But supposedly some have experienced the issue at the 50+ mark, so I'd load them full up. And maybe let them set for a week or two.

Kudos to Robert at RTG for (no surprise there) standing behind a product that quite honestly, he has very little control over. He's sold over 20K of these mags and there's only been a few isolated instances of this issue. Russian ammo makers not being consistent? Who'd a thunk? LOL

 

[root]

So I've been looking at these on his site.

The vid says it comes with a loader in the vid. I also don't see in the ad that it comes with a loader.

Did yours coe with loaders like the vid says?

Thanks

 

[Jack007]

Mine did NOT come with a loader.
I asked about it but received no answer.
Not sure how a loader would necessarily make loading any easier, but I would be interested in seeing or even trying one.
That said, I loaded my two mags up a little over two weeks ago. At some point I'm going to unload them and see if they load up any easier.
Haven't had an opportunity to run these through one of my AKs though.
If you're on the fence, I might point out that NOW is probably the time to buy mags. Not next year...

 

[Uncle Billy]

none of the ads I have seen says "comes with loader" whatever video you saw, the guy mis-spoke.........but if you have one of lever gizmo AK loaders that should work without issue........now, AC-UNITY does make a loader for them, that also works on all 7,62 AK mags

https://www.circle10ak.com/product/ac-unity-ak-magazine-loader-7-62x39mm/

now, what I use to load my 7.62 mags is the NcStar stripper clip loader, it fast and efficient . the only downside to it, it only works with 7.62 military stripper clips, they won't work with the Chinese commercial stripper clips, I tried on numerous occasion and it just didn't work ............weird I know, since this loader is made in china.

and the other huge thing is, they are no longer produced

 

[Jack007]

Good job, Billy!
Just used your superior Google Fu powers or are you a Unity mag owner?
Ordered one to check it out.
Thanks!

 

[Uncle Billy]

used GOOGLE search , I don't need anymore mags of any kind, bought all the mags I will ever need 15+ years ago

 

[root]

https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/AK47-60RD-QUAD-STACK-MAGAZINE-AC-UNITY-164p6600.htm

The vid right on Roberts site from the unity plant says they come with loaders.

It's @ 3:48 into the vid says it comes with a loader. Then again the guy also claims Pmag invented the poly magazine too! SO who knows he may not know what he's talking about.

Like others probably don't need more mags.

I'm already a magaholic

Gonna order a few of them here in the next day or so I just placed a order with RTG for 15 unity 556 mags and was looking at them and need to find about 15 or 20 galil mags before I order the quad AK mag
I already have chinese drums for my chinese guns. Just want a few of the quads since I don't have any. Figured I'd ask about the loader since it is mentioned in the vid but some sites are offering it with the mag for 100 and 40-50 less without the loader.

 

[A&S Conversions]

For a loader, I really like the LULA Loader. I have several for various magazines. The AK, AR, Uzi, MP5, and Colt 9mm are double stack, double feed. I find that the double stack single feed must have a loader, but you can get by without one for the double stack double feed. I started using the LULA loader because of the Beta C mags. The 5 round loaders that came with them I found hard to use. Especially with the first round, it was easy to get the round flipped backwards. The supplied stripper clip loaders were fast but wore the plastic feed lips of the tower. The worn feed lips would cause double feeds. I found that the LULA loader was much easier on the plastic lips of the feed tower. Once I got used to the AR LULA I bought the others. It certainly is much easier on the thumb to use the LULA loader.

As others have posted, I have bought lots of magazines. I sit in front of the TV while loading mags. I use gloves and a tray to keep the lead dust contained. So when I get to the range it is about shooting time rather than mag loading time. Since I am lucky enough to own machineguns, it is much quicker to unload the mags than loading them.

Scott

 

[root]

I agree with the Lula loaders have several myself.

1st time using one was with Kramer and his mini UZI.
I was sold right there on them not only are they easy on the fingers but faster on the loading.

I did pick up two of the quad mags from unity and a loader for 99 final total only because things like that make liberals cry tears of rage.

Doubtful I'll try anything out before spring, winter is my reloading and non shooting gun stuff time. I normally only get out if i really wanna.
I might see if the guy has some more of the quad unity mags left all depends.
I will say they are wide but appear to be a great substitute for my collectable Chinese drums since those are almost the price of a beater gun now.

 

[Kramer]

I agree with the Lula loaders have several myself.

1st time using one was with Kramer and his mini UZI.
I was sold right there on them not only are they easy on the fingers but faster on the loading.

Yeah the Lula loader is a must for Uzi mags. Fast and painless.

 

[Jack007]

After trying this Unity loader, all i can say is that it's a little slow when the mag starts to get tough. In all fairness, I doubt the LULA would be any better. I've got several and love them. But the springs in this 60rd are a bitch. One thing I like is the way it locks onto the mag via the mag catch. It's not gonna slip off. Also the finger levers on top are easier to exert pressure than the LULA...helpful with these uber tough mags. Last but far from least... It's hard to beat the price! At $7 it's so well made that it's hard to see how they sell at that price? I bought one for each mag in case I sell off a mag later. Great package deal.

 

[Gaujo]

I bought that loader, looking forward to trying er out.

 

[Jack007]

I bought that loader, looking forward to trying er out.

I have yet to try out the MAGS since I resolved the ammo issue. Frustrating as its hard to shoot rifles around here.
Hard to believe it was such an ordeal just to figure out why I couldn't even LOAD them!

 

[sniperdoc]

Re: Loading Mags; our son used to love loading Mags when he was younger (it probably helped that he also got to empty them!) but he outgrew it. Now I'm just waiting for the Grandkids to get old enough to load them for me!

 

[root]

I'll be trying mine One black friday next week it looks like.
See how the mags like the chinese copper wash and brass cases since I misplaced a case of wolf and can't find it.

Never any good deals on BF anymore anyways, might as well go waste a few K rounds I'll see how the quads and loader work

 

[Jack007]

See how the mags like the chinese copper wash

I was able to load lacquered Norinco with no problem. I doubt the copper wash will be a issue. Feeding....? That's what I am most interested in. Those last few rounds after 50-55 are TIGHT. My Polytech had issues just chambering the top rounds without a little extra handslap. I really wanted to try my Golden Tiger as that's really the only other plinking ammo I have. It's obvious my Wolf is a no go. Unfortunately I will have to break open one of Tiger sealed cases.
I hate to burn up my Chinese ammo. I could never afford to replace it. Don't know about you, but it's the BEST I've ever shot.
Shooting Chinese ammo in a Bosnian 60 rd plastic mag....who'd a thunk 30 years ago?

 

[root]

I only plan to shoot about a mags worth of the copper wash. I'm down to my last crate of it.
I like you won't replace it and that's 60 rounds gone forever in the US due to imports. Yer right though it is the most accurate and hottest ammo I've ever run through my 762 guns.
Stinky and corrosive but good stuff.
I'm gonna try some of that German white box and also some wolf along with the copper and brass.

Have a report on it in about a week.

 

[root]

Well AC 60 quad report:

They suck to load even with the loader.
Probably impossible to load without a loader.

The loader works great even with their 30 round 5.56x45 mags it really shines once you figure it out.

That said it is not a LULA and while it works great it does not work as well or smooth as the LULA loaders I have or have used.

Now the mags.

Brass and the copper wash fed right through no problems as fast as you could pull the trigger or bumpfire the guns.

Lacquer rounds refused to feed in any capacity. Each round took a nose dive straight into the feed ramp on both AKS guns.
A 1990's MAADI and a 2020 Pioneer hellpup.

This caused me to have to reach in the breach with the bolt held back with one hand and push the rear of the bullet down to get the projectile tip up and back into feed position.

After about 15 rounds with each gun I just had enough with that whole mess & figured was best to just stop before I ended up with garand thump on my finger.
Never had garand thumb and wasn't about to start this late in life.

Mags were loaded on Wed afternoon and left loaded 48 hrs prior to shooting.

So my take away is lacquer shells suck in these mags to the point that they just don't work.
copper and brass shells run as intended.

The bright side is once I go to reload the steel cases the lacquer is no longer left on the case since I tumble with SS pins and flip upside down and mist with krylon spray paint if needed to stop rust.
If/when I get to loading another batch of steel I'll report back with results but that's going to be a long ways off before I need to reload for the 7.62x39 again.
I don't shoot them often and have tons of empty brass before I will need to load steel cases.

Ammo was german steel lacquer case FAIL
chinese copper wash case SUCCESS
federal brass soft poit SUCCESS
Bare steel reloads SUCCESS

Possibly the mags need a break in period with the lacquer cased stuff.
I know I had to break in my S12 drums before they would run the 22 per 100 cheap wallywworld 1 7/8 crap
It took over 100 rounds per drum to break 'em in. These polymags might be the same way.
Will be next summer before I get back to any 7.62x39 stuff.

I will say the AC UNITY 5.56x45 mags are the shit and work very well, better then expected in the M85 zastava

All in all I still like the rear loading wind up drums the best.
Ease of loading. Being able to be left loaded unwound and no reliability issues with them.
They have fed any and everything I ever ran through them.

I don't have much lacquer ammo left probably less then 200 rnds now so for me the 60 rnd quad mags are G2G.
That said I'll still consider them toys until I can figure out how to get lacquer ammo to feed right from them since the majority of 7.62x39 out there is probably over 95% lacquer wolf or other lacquer coated cases.

 

[Jack007]

Discouraging report.
Ammo sensitive mags! You'd think those Croatians would have factored the lacquered cases into their equation? It's not like they're strangers to that kind of ammo.
As far as range toys, I don't plan on using my Chinese for a lot of range plinking. I have some of that brown lacquered non corrosive Norinco laying around. It loads fine into these mags. I wonder how it'll feed? I was surprised to find you had feeding issues. Wonder what ammo those guys are running in the factory videos?
Thanks for the detailed report! Good job!

 

[Deerhurst]

I expect basically any quad stack AK mag to be unreliable and range/toy mags at best. If the magis ammo sensitive it's not worth dealing with.

Try some wolf poly. I have one AK.in particular, my krink which is slightly under gassed, is slightly sensitive to poly vs lacquer. It prefers lacquer. You may have a rifle that does the same coupled with spotty feeding. I'm betting the gun is slightly short stroking. Though I've never actually experienced an AK nose dive rounds into the bullet guide. I also only use russian and Bulgarian surplus mags for my 74s but do use KCI and magpul for my 47s.