Letter schmetter. I get it, but doesn't pass the smell test (look at RDIAS and HK sears). Laws come from congress. ATF is overstepping their authority on many issues (my opinion) with this silly "issue a letter, the general population is trained to fall in line)". They're finding out some boundaries with the whole brace issue. I think that they could likely be challenged on other similar "letter" rulings.
Pindad at SHOT Show 2024 (Indonesian FNC imports??)
- Thread starter howdy
- Start date
I believe that conversation ended with using the proper sears and lowers with their specific platforms. AR Platforms, HK Platforms, Uzi Platforms, AK Platforms, etc…
And yes, there have been some mixes allowed through the years but they specifically outed the FNC guys not to do it.
The samples delivered to ATF were cross breeding the FNC with other platforms. If I remember, it was noted that the FNC registered sears could only be used on the FNC platform. All that exists in that family is the FNC, AK5 and the Pindad guns. Now if any of those happens to become available then have at it.
Keeping us from cross breeding is segregation. Those racist bastards.
And yes, there have been some mixes allowed through the years but they specifically outed the FNC guys not to do it.
The samples delivered to ATF were cross breeding the FNC with other platforms. If I remember, it was noted that the FNC registered sears could only be used on the FNC platform. All that exists in that family is the FNC, AK5 and the Pindad guns. Now if any of those happens to become available then have at it.
Keeping us from cross breeding is segregation. Those racist bastards.
APEXgunparts
Well-known member
The article at this link does a better job of explaining the position ATF imports division is taking.
This isn't new, last year I read about an importer of modern semi-auto's that suddenly wasn't able to import the "pistol" they had been bringing into the USA for some time.
I don't remember who it was, maybe a member here has that info.
ATF Interpretive Change Restricts Handgun Imports
Richard
This isn't new, last year I read about an importer of modern semi-auto's that suddenly wasn't able to import the "pistol" they had been bringing into the USA for some time.
I don't remember who it was, maybe a member here has that info.
ATF Interpretive Change Restricts Handgun Imports
Richard
What I find interesting is ATF deciding a handgun designed to be held with 2 hands is an AOW. Back when the law was written target shooters predominantly used a one handed hold. OK, but in the interim a 2 handed hold has become the norm. All those wundernines of the 80s that had the hooked trigger guard for the second hand's forefinger to wrap around is obviously designed for a 2 handed hold. Many guns still have them today. Modern guns also have other features to accommodate the second hand as well. Not to mention the Contenders and various other long range hunting pistols that both chamber traditional rifle cartridges and have a forearm. If applied consistently they gonna have to reclassify a lot of "Fudd Guns".
You're referring to ATF Ruling 2008-1, which does not hold anything regarding what make nor model an FNC sear can be installed into. It holds 2 things:
- Held, the upper assembly of the FN FNC rifle is the receiver of the firearm.
- Held further, in the event a licensed manufacturer in the United States manufactures a new firearm that is substantially similar to the FN FNC rifle, it must be marked with a model designation other than “FNC.”
The SS1 is a licensed FNC. As with the precedent of HK sears, installing a sear in a clone has been fine.
Thanks APEX/Richard for the article.
Cleared up some stuff but also muddied the water too.
FROM THE ARTICLE +++++++++++
However, ATF also noted in the most recent private ruling that the above design features are “neither binding on future classifications nor is any factor individually determinative[.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That is one flip flop that appears to flipped with some palm greasing AKA loot thrown around.
There are others in the article also that out right lead one to believe they can pull a Cartman and DO WHAT I WANT"..
As far as a letter? LOL those things are not worth the time to write or paper printed on look @ RBT.no letter from the start
Armbraces? A dozen letters going every directions.
Guns now shipping with them again.
Time will tell I guess.
One thing I don't see them doing is being all nice and friendly due to all the cases they ard losing.
Matter of fact since their losses in court thay have pulled exemptions and variances all the way back to the 68 GCA smoke & flash bangs being the latest.
They were GCA86 exemptions that got pulled.
A few other things I forget also due to not being into those either.
Anywho if Pindad gets em in I'm buying.
Cleared up some stuff but also muddied the water too.
FROM THE ARTICLE +++++++++++
However, ATF also noted in the most recent private ruling that the above design features are “neither binding on future classifications nor is any factor individually determinative[.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That is one flip flop that appears to flipped with some palm greasing AKA loot thrown around.
There are others in the article also that out right lead one to believe they can pull a Cartman and DO WHAT I WANT"..
As far as a letter? LOL those things are not worth the time to write or paper printed on look @ RBT.no letter from the start
Armbraces? A dozen letters going every directions.
Guns now shipping with them again.
Time will tell I guess.
One thing I don't see them doing is being all nice and friendly due to all the cases they ard losing.
Matter of fact since their losses in court thay have pulled exemptions and variances all the way back to the 68 GCA smoke & flash bangs being the latest.
They were GCA86 exemptions that got pulled.
A few other things I forget also due to not being into those either.
Anywho if Pindad gets em in I'm buying.
The upper was reclassified as the firearm by the ATF... but the sear is installed in the lower.
That makes the lower essentially an unregulated accessory because they didn't want to open up a can of worms with all the holes being drilled into FNC lowers to install the sear. Drilling holes for sears in receivers is typically verboten... look at AK's and AR's for example.
Since the lower is not the receiver (it's now just basically a large trigger pack for the registered sear), and ATF has no issue with drilling and milling on them, and they also have no issue with sears being swapped between other legacy rifle systems like H&K's or AR's from different manufacturers, we should be good to go. Hopefully...
SCAR owners wanted to install FNC sears into FN SCAR rifles with the hope that ATF would consider it a legacy rifle. Unfortunately, they subsequently ruled that it wasn't. The differences between a SCAR and an FNC are fairly obvious although they are somewhat similar in design on the inside. The Pindad is unquestionably a very close copy of FN's original FNC.
Given that the Pindad SS1-C is a factory built FNC rifle manufactured on FN licensed tooling, I think it has a good chance of being considered a legacy platform and sears will be able to be installed in these unregulated lowers. Bolt carriers will also be allowed to be welded up for trips since they are also an unregulated part.
The FNC design requires no modifications to the upper receiver/firearm to be used with a sear.
I think this will be the key factor in the ATF approving sear installations in Pindad imported FNC's... assuming they are allowed to eventually import them and decide to do so.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
navgunner
UZI Talk Life Member
License-Made FNC, BM-59, and PM12 Headed to U.S. From Pindad of Indonesia :: Guns.com
Probably the coolest story coming out of SHOT Show involves one of the largest state-owned firearms plants in the world spooling up to send pallets of iconic guns to anxious consumers in the U.S.
www.guns.com
Regarding the import; one of the reps specifically said they will have a shorter than rifle-length barrel (I think it was 14", 18" and 21" models). So even if what Apex said is true [and the ATF import ruling doesn't change] re: long-barreled rifle-caliber guns, they will still be able to import the 14" version. If they can't do that, then there is no way that the CZ Bren pistols in multiple calibers, ZPAP AK pistols, etc etc. would be allowed into the country but the 14" Pindad wouldn't be.
License-Made FNC, BM-59, and PM12 Headed to U.S. From Pindad of Indonesia :: Guns.com
Probably the coolest story coming out of SHOT Show involves one of the largest state-owned firearms plants in the world spooling up to send pallets of iconic guns to anxious consumers in the U.S.
Thanks for posting that. Now I'm sitting here hoping they bring in a sub-$5,000 M249 replica
Kalashnikev
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2004
- Messages
- 115
You are aware that these are FNCs, not AR-15s... correct?
If you have been sitting on an FNC lower, then daaamn... that must be some kind of torture.
APEXgunparts
Well-known member
This past week I spoke to a friend who works for a large US based firearms importer.
He had heard about the Pindad FNC and so went by their booth at the Shot Show.
He was told that they had already made an agreement with another US company to import their guns.
The other thing he learned, none of the Pindad firearms has been approved by the ATF for import.
So, the US company will have to bring in samples on a temporary import for ATF to examine.
That can go several different ways, to include ATF declaring the sample a MG and confiscating it for destruction (that happened to another importer I know, and their is non financial compensation)
Usually there will be some back and forth with ATF, and changes made to the gun to make them importable.
If they can be imported then the US company will have to contract with Pindad to actually manufacture the guns in the US configuration.
That usually involves securing financing that must be placed in escrow until the newly manufactured arms are loaded on the ship for the trip to the USA.
This whole process will take time and money, hopefully the US company working the import has plenty of both.
Richard
He had heard about the Pindad FNC and so went by their booth at the Shot Show.
He was told that they had already made an agreement with another US company to import their guns.
The other thing he learned, none of the Pindad firearms has been approved by the ATF for import.
So, the US company will have to bring in samples on a temporary import for ATF to examine.
That can go several different ways, to include ATF declaring the sample a MG and confiscating it for destruction (that happened to another importer I know, and their is non financial compensation)
Usually there will be some back and forth with ATF, and changes made to the gun to make them importable.
If they can be imported then the US company will have to contract with Pindad to actually manufacture the guns in the US configuration.
That usually involves securing financing that must be placed in escrow until the newly manufactured arms are loaded on the ship for the trip to the USA.
This whole process will take time and money, hopefully the US company working the import has plenty of both.
Richard
Kalashnikev
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2004
- Messages
- 115
Well this is about to make your whole week- AWB '89 only applies to the State of California.
AWB '94 is perhaps the one you were thinking of... but that completely disappeared 20 years ago- like it never even happened.
Please Visit our Sister Sites Below
Please consider becoming an UZI Talk Supporter