What a fair price between friends for a Shrike?

[JTinIN]

After eight years a couple of us have received the next payment and assume will have the actually Shrike in a similar time (i.e. another 8 years).
Since that time have been shooting a friends extra mm23e and thinking this is the way will be going. Thus wonder what a fair price among friends is for a Shrike (if I live long enough ;-).

Thanks

 

[cultist]

Not sure what language that was written in, but if I understand the question, I'd say....

Buyer should be willing to pay fair market value unless seller offers a better deal.

That way friends stay friends.

 

[JTinIN]

Not sure what language that was written in, but if I understand the question, I'd say....

Buyer should be willing to pay fair market value unless seller offers a better deal.

That way friends stay friends.

Thanks - you understood the first half of the question perfectly, however, the hard part is what is "fair market value" now days?

In a few years, decades or centuries when the Shrike is in stock, then "fair market value" is between manufactures recommend retail price and the dealer price (assuming a difference). Now day's we can say the Shrike is not typically in stock, nor being shipped "often and regularly", thus is the "fair market value" nominal the current recommended price, higher or lower and if so by what nominal factor?

Thanks

 

[bwsmg]

If I remember correctly one sold last year for $7500 NIB. Sound really freak’n high to me, but seeing how difficult they are to get maybe it’s a fair price. Who to say in another eight years they will be worth double…?

 

[gt3499a]

it would have to be above the valkyrie system price of 4500. I cant imagine spending $6000 on one but that might be a nice compromise price for a friend. You wouldnt be leaving a lot of value and they wouldnt be hit too hard if the uppers became more readily available at 5k.

 

[JTinIN]

Thanks, the past price, comparison to other products etc. is helpful.

 

[rv10flyer]

Over the last year I have seen them sell for as high as $12,500 (crazy) but recently the going price seems to be between $7K and $8K.

 

[cultist]

In a few years, decades or centuries when the Shrike is in stock, then "fair market value" is between manufactures recommend retail price and the dealer price (assuming a difference). Now day's we can say the Shrike is not typically in stock, nor being shipped "often and regularly", thus is the "fair market value" nominal the current recommended price, higher or lower and if so by what nominal factor?

Thanks

Doubt the Shrike will ever be an "in stock" item.

FMV is whatever actual Shrikes are presently selling for. Above are listed some suggestions as to that number.

If its worth that to ya, get it. But I really doubt they are ever gonna be mass produced and sell for much less.


What I recommend you NOT do is try to low ball a friend. Unless you consider him an expendable friend.

 

[JTinIN]

Doubt the Shrike will ever be an "in stock" item.
FMV is whatever actual Shrikes are presently selling for. Above are listed some suggestions as to that number.
If its worth that to ya, get it. But I really doubt they are ever gonna be mass produced and sell for much less.
What I recommend you NOT do is try to low ball a friend. Unless you consider him an expendable friend.

Agree that best not to low ball friends when they are selling. However, in this case the friend is buying and I am selling ... thus less issues with "low balling" as long as I am happy with the price. In the past on "common" items have tried to come up with the lowest/best fair market selling price and then ask for 10% less (no shipping, no hassle on getting funds etc.).

Thanks

 

[tonytdmd]

5300$ is the new price from Ares. 6500$ is about what they are selling for, although asking is typically 7-7.5K. (Seems fair considering the wait and uncertainty of ordering one yourself.)

 

[JTinIN]

Thanks. It is starting to sounds like the price range for a basic Shrike is between the $2500 I paid and $5850 (90% of $6.5K).

And if trading on already discounted items, then maybe $4770 (90% of current retail price).

 

[subgunner]

If you believe ARES posts on AR15.com they will have all Shrikes to depositors delivered by the end of January 2011. The say the retail price will then be $5300.00.

If that turns out to be true why would anyone pay more than retail? Mid 2011 I'd bet some used might even be hitting the market if production is what ARES claims.

Frankly hard to imagine ARES is going to live up to it current schedule but I'd wait a few months before buying.

 

[JTinIN]

If you believe ARES posts on AR15.com they will have all Shrikes to depositors delivered by the end of January 2011. The say the retail price will then be $5300.00.

If that turns out to be true why would anyone pay more than retail? Mid 2011 I'd bet some used might even be hitting the market if production is what ARES claims.

Frankly hard to imagine ARES is going to live up to it current schedule but I'd wait a few months before buying.

If everyone lives long enough, most likely they will make there schedule with in a half dozen years grace period ......

 

[A&S Conversions]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about coming up with a price until I had the upper in my hands. Given Ares incredibly poor track record of following through with delivering product and the fact that you are dealing with a friend, I'd wait until I actually had the item before making a deal. He knows that you're paying $2,500. Depending on your level of friendship, is he good with you over doubling your money with him? He might not say it, but is he looking to use his relationship with you for a "super buddy" price? It would be a drag to put stress on your friendship, and then have Ares fold and stiff you. So your friend thinks you should have offered him a better deal, which he takes personally and then Ares doesn't deliver your upper. That is the worst case scenario, but why risk that? If all these uppers actually get delivered there will be plenty going up for sale to give you an idea of market value.

I'm still not sure as I understand why you want to sell. I'd live with the Shrike for a while. The MM 23 looks to be a great 23E clone. The last I knew the MM 23 was selling at $12,000. You have got to shoot your buddy's MM 23 but you have not "lived with" a from the shoulder 5.56 belt fed gun. For me, I've found the borrowing and owning a firearm is two different things. And a shoulder fired belt fed 5.56 is a different kind of firearm. After "living with" the Shrike, will tell you whether a shoulder fired 5.56 is what you want in your collection long term. At $2,500 the Shrike sounds like a much more cost effective way to see if this style of firearm is what you want in your collection. If not, you can still sell the Shrike for a good profit and put the money into another direction. Far be it for me to tell another member how to build his collection, but it would cost you a lot less with the Shrike to find out if a shoulder fired 5.56 belt fed machinegun is for you, in the long term. Good luck with the sale price of your Shrike for your friend.

Scott

 

[trek45]

Anything less than market value is the same as you taking money out of your pocket and handing it to him. You could put the upper on Gunbroker and tell your friend that if he wins, you'll give him $100 off or something. This way you don't have to come up with a price, and he still gets the "friend" discount.

 

[JTinIN]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about coming up with a price until I had the upper in my hands. Given Ares incredibly poor track record of following through with delivering product and the fact that you are dealing with a friend, I'd wait until I actually had the item before making a deal. He knows that you're paying $2,500. Depending on your level of friendship, is he good with you over doubling your money with him? He might not say it, but is he looking to use his relationship with you for a "super buddy" price? It would be a drag to put stress on your friendship, and then have Ares fold and stiff you. So your friend thinks you should have offered him a better deal, which he takes personally and then Ares doesn't deliver your upper. That is the worst case scenario, but why risk that? If all these uppers actually get delivered there will be plenty going up for sale to give you an idea of market value.

I'm still not sure as I understand why you want to sell. I'd live with the Shrike for a while. The MM 23 looks to be a great 23E clone. The last I knew the MM 23 was selling at $12,000. You have got to shoot your buddy's MM 23 but you have not "lived with" a from the shoulder 5.56 belt fed gun. For me, I've found the borrowing and owning a firearm is two different things. And a shoulder fired belt fed 5.56 is a different kind of firearm. After "living with" the Shrike, will tell you whether a shoulder fired 5.56 is what you want in your collection long term. At $2,500 the Shrike sounds like a much more cost effective way to see if this style of firearm is what you want in your collection. If not, you can still sell the Shrike for a good profit and put the money into another direction. Far be it for me to tell another member how to build his collection, but it would cost you a lot less with the Shrike to find out if a shoulder fired 5.56 belt fed machinegun is for you, in the long term. Good luck with the sale price of your Shrike for your friend.

Scott

All good information and appreciate the ideas, background and information. And as you were cautioning, all deals are only discussion until such time as both parties actually have all items in hand (which should be no more than another eight years for the Shrike ;-).

We have and have had deals that run for five years and include "de-trades" after he used a rifle for a bit and noticed the difference you very well pointed out between "borrowing" and "owning". In this case there are a few factors having both of us considering changing what either we have or might be getting, in my case the options of having a 7.62x39 kit on the mm23e (when they are out) and looking more for a bipod mounted light machinegun to go with the 1919A4 (don't really like the A6 kit due to exposed trigger and weight etc.) than a hand held belt M16 is at least worth my considerations.

Lastly on pricing, the good buddy discount goes both way, so one might trade at intro pricing in both directions or some linear average between intro pricing and current selling pricing if factors have changed (i.e. with the softening of some prices last year the best model might be the second).

Appreciate everyone's ideas and comments and of all the Forums have found Uzi Talk to be the best for general discussion, speculations and assistance with out getting flamed more than one really needs.

 

[A&S Conversions]

If the Shrike actually goes into "production" I'd think a 7.62X39 offering would not be far behind. That is of course that Ares actually delivers all these units as promised. My cousin sent them his $1,000.00 deposit over eight years ago. He has not received any communication from them as of last week. I hope you in fact get your product as promised.

Scott

 

[amphibian]

Scott gives some really good advice. I too think you should try the Shrike out before getting rid of it. I really like mine. One feature that I think is really handy is being able to accept mags. I like being able to put one round in a mag and see that the ammo has enough backpressure to hold the bolt back after the last round. I don't believe the MM23E can do that.
Also SAW boxes are cheap and available....however, I think I heard that someone (maybe Mike himself) was making an adapter to accept the commonly available SAW boxes.
Does the MM23E have an adjustable gas system like the Shrike? Shrike does but they are also doing a self regulating barrel setup as well.

 

[JTinIN]

Scott gives some really good advice. I too think you should try the Shrike out before getting rid of it. I really like mine. One feature that I think is really handy is being able to accept mags. I like being able to put one round in a mag and see that the ammo has enough backpressure to hold the bolt back after the last round. I don't believe the MM23E can do that.
Also SAW boxes are cheap and available....however, I think I heard that someone (maybe Mike himself) was making an adapter to accept the commonly available SAW boxes.
Does the MM23E have an adjustable gas system like the Shrike? Shrike does but they are also doing a self regulating barrel setup as well.

No gas system on a mm23e as is a roller lock system, nor does one have to worry about bolt hold back with most HKs ... there is none ;-).

Have fired the Shrike and MM23e and both are different and fill their own spot. Most likely will shoot the Shrike enough to check it out and debug it before trading, however, have to get links as all 10K+ of mine has holes in them, plus it in theory the Shrike does not shoot most of the blasting ammo for the mm23e (aka Wolf), so will have to break into my "NATO" stock (time to rotate anyway).

As always appreciate the ideas and comments for discussion. If was still ten years younger, would most likely have and keep both, however, as one gets a little older some of the run and gun options are no longer of much interest ;-).

 

[hkg3k]

Even though it would be kinda cool, I doubt the Shrike will ever be made in 7.62x39. The Shrike was designed to use disintegrating links. The Shrike belt-feed is on top and ejects links ABOVE the ctg ejection port.......the 7.62x39 belting systems I'm aware of come only as a non-disintegrating metallic belt. You'd have the empty belt hanging right over the ctg ejection port......not good.

The MM23e would work with a non-disintegrating metallic belts because its belt-feed system is below the ctg ejection port.

JTinIN, you are correct regarding the links you have......the Shrike won't like them. But then, there's a good possibility the MM23e won't like them either. Pick up a few thousand used M-27 links from Old Sarge. Last time I bought, they were very reasonable are work perfectly. Also.....who says the Shrike won't run "blasting ammo?" My Shrike(s) run perfectly on Wolf Black Box and Military Classic, and Brown Bear. I haven't run brass cased stuff in years.

I too would echo Scott's advice regarding a "trial marriage" with the Shrike before deciding to sell. I've been VERY satisfied with both of mine.......I feel they're one of the few bargains I've enjoyed in the class 3 world as an original depositor. I have an MM23e coming at some point......just wish I already had it to compare side by side with the Shrike. The MM23e is going to have to be really good (and I understand it is) to keep up with a Shrike.

Good Luck on your decision