UZI Kit Gun

[texasvwnut]

I've seen KY Imports and others advertising Group Industries receivers in various stages of completion.

KY has a HR4332S complete, parkerized receiver for $350.

I assume the (S) designates semi auto.

Can someone assemble one of these receivers with parts from one of the numerous SMG parts kits found is Shotgun News and the internet?

If so, what complexities whould I encounter? I would need a 16" barrel and I assume would also need to go to a closed bolt. What else would need to be changed to semi auto?

I found the differences in the Resources between an "A" model and a "B" model, but I guess I am a little lacking in the differneces between a SMG and a semi auto.

 

[KarlPMann]

First, anything you build now has to comply with the AW ban. You would need ten US made parts. So a SMG parts kit wouldn't really be usable. You could use some of the parts, but it wouldn't be all that cost effective. I know D&D and Vector both have the necessary US made parts to complete the kit. Also, many of the parts from that kit are for FA guns, therefore you can't use those specific parts either. If you get the KY Imports finished receiver and build it with the required US made parts, you can save a few bucks, but not a mint. Karl.

 

[mark214]

First, anything you build now has to comply with the AW ban. You would need ten US made parts. Karl.

My understanding is 6 US parts on an UZI.

Receiver
Grips
Forearm
Barrel
Stock
Bolt
follower
floorplate
All are available would all count as US parts.

 

[KarlPMann]

:buttkick Ooops, Not more than 10 foreign parts = 6 US made parts. DUH! Karl.

 

[mark214]

Here is the ATF list of parts.
My latest question is, does the trunion in an UZI count as a
second US part in the UZI receiver? If so that would mean only 4
more US parts are required.
Second what is the firing pin carrier in an UZI called in the ATF list. Thanks for all the good information in the past posts.

1. Frames, receiver, receiver castings, forgings or stampings.
2. Barrels

4. Mounting blocks (trunions)

6. Bolts

8. Operating Rods

10. Trigger housings
11. Triggers

13. Sears
14. Disconnectors
15. Buttstocks
16. Pistol grips
17. forearms, handguards
18. Magazine bodies
19. Followers
20. Floorplates

Not used in an UZI per ATF
****3. Barrel extensions
****5. Muzzle attachments
*****7. Bolt carriers
*****9. Gas pistons
******12. Hammers

 

[KarlPMann]

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1789


Go look at the threads referenced in that thread. They have complete lists of the parts.


Receiver.
Hammer/striker assembly.
Sear.
Top cover.
Lower/trigger housing.
Trunion.
Barrel.
Grips.
Foregrips.
Mag body.
Mag follower.
Mag floorplate.
Bolt.
Trigger assembly.
Stock.
Selector.


That's from memory so I may have made an error. Go look at the lists in those threads to be sure. Karl.

 

[Quarterbore]

Wow, I can post now.. thanks Karl!

Well, I have seen that people have asked about building an Uzi from one of these kits a few times in the past (search) and I keep seeing that the general consensus is that it is not worth the effort to build a Semiauto Uzi from a UZI SMG parts kit due to the fact that many of the parts will need to be replaced due to the 922(r) requirements and by the time you are done you will have as much invested into a POST BAN as you could have into a used pre-ban. Just the same, why not look at how this could be done and NOTE I AM NEW TO UZIs and I am only now trying to learn the UZI world.

Regarding the 922(r) requirements, I realize that we can not build a weapon from a parts kit if we use more than 10 of the following parts if those ten parts are imported.

Following are the twenty items of concern:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions ================ >>> (Not on an Uzi)
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments ================ >>> (Not on an Uzi)
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers ================ >>> (Not on an Uzi)
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons ================ >>> (Not on an Uzi)
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers ================ >>> (Not on an Uzi - ATF doesn't count striker as this)
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearm handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

Now, I am not real sure on which parts are most reasonable to replace due to my NEWBE status but there are five here that need to go....

If we look at the letter from the following link:

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter3.txt

You will notice that we can still build a Semi-Auto UZI using all the SMG parts (well modified so as to be semi-auto) as long as what we build is an NFA weapon. This means that a SBR UZI that complies with the Crime Bill would be legal as would an UZI Any Other Weapon (AOW).

I also find it quite interesting that the 922(r) requirements only apply to semi automatic weapons. If I were to modify an UZI parts kit so that it is no longer "semi automatic", then I can use any or all of the imported parts! I must admit that making a blowback weapon like an UZI to become a BOLT ACTION might be a challange but with kits costing about $130 it might be worth a try especially in the form of an Bolt Action Uzi Pistol?

I am here to learn about the UZI as I have purchased an UZI parts kit and now I am trying to decide if I want to buy a FULL AUTO Uzi Receiver or a Registered bolt. When I get done, I may build my kit as a Semi-auto OR if I can find a registered bolt that will work with my Parts Kit I may try to build my own full auto UZI around by Form 4 registered Bolt....

Then again, I really need some help here as I understand that MOST registered Bolts will not work with a normal Full Auto Uzi Receiver as most of them were milled down to work with semiauto UZIs....

Oh well, I am just glad to finally got into the door so I can post!

 

[KarlPMann]

You're welcome, and :welcome to UZI-Talk Quarterbore. The problem with the parts kit from a Full Auto is that you can't use all the parts due to the AW ban and also because some are FA specific parts and ATF prefer you not have any in a SA gun. The sear, selector, bolt, barrel, trigger housing, and top cover are all different. Take out those 6 parts and replace with semi auto, US made parts and you'd be OK. Then you'd comply with the AW laws as well as NFA laws. The problem is, as you noted, if you buy those particular US made parts and the kit and a new SA receiver, the cost is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :eek

As for using the kit to make a full auto with a registered receiver. Where on earth will you ever find a stripped, registered receiver? You're just as well off buying the whole RR gun and just having the kit as spare parts like it was intended for. JMHO, Karl.

 

[Quarterbore]

Yes, I wasn't clear...! I would either like to use the kit with a registered BOLT but if that isn't possible, which seems to be the case, then I will be looking for a Full Sized UZI and I will keep my nice new parts kit as spare parts...

Unless I look at the other options as a SBR, AOW, or non Semiauto where the 922(r) requirements would not apply! Obviously, I would still need to find a way to modify these to make the ATF happy, but I have lots of time to work on it!

 

[KarlPMann]

922(r) does apply to SBR and AOW guns. It is only exempted on FA guns since they aren't defined as a pistol or a rifle under current law. They are a "machinegun". The only legal use for the FA specific parts are in a FA reg'd. gun. The bolt can only be used in a RR and the rest can be used in any reg'd. FA gun. So you can use all but the bolt with a reg'd. bolt gun (duh, you would have the reg'd. bolt anyway). Karl.

 

[Quarterbore]

922(r) does apply to SBR and AOW guns.

NOPE... check the letter from the ATF linked above.... it says in part....

However, the Bureau has previously determined that the lawful making of an NFA weapon would not violate Section 922(r), since the section only addresses the assembly of "nonsporting" firearms, and not the making of NFA weapons. Therefore, the lawful making of a short barreled rifle would not be precluded by Section 922(r).

So, as long as we remain POST-BAN compliant (and I hope the crime bill dies so this isn't an issue soon) when I can buy a receiver and register it as a SBR and build it with NO NEED for US parts! The same would apply for an AOW if I can get OR BUILD a VIRGIN UZI receiver that was never built as a pistol or rifle...

Note: WIth a rifle, once a rifle, always a rifle.... an an AOW isn't a pistol nor is it a rifle... I have not seen the ATF make the same claim with pistols but it wouldn't shock me to see them claim once a pistol, always a pistol... making them ineledgable to be built as an AOW???

Now, the Full Auto Parts will still be an issue! Just the same, with a mill and a metal lathe this is VERY possible as at least the UZI fires from a closed bolt! If people can make a 1919a4, BREN LMG, STEN, and other Open Bolt weapons into legal semi autos, converting a full auto in a way that would make the ATF happy can not be all that hard!

Then again, it's this challange and the fact that the ATF is looking to stop the import of functional kits made me pick up my parts kit in the first place. For now, I am here to learn all about the UZI and then I will worry about how I will build.

 

[KarlPMann]

I can only say one thing. You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT HAVE A CURRENT BUILT SBR NOT COMPLY WITH THE AW BAN! ATF says it's still a rifle and therefore must comply with the AW restrictions of 922. Before you build anything under NFA Title II you must get an approved ATF form 1. That form requires you tell them what and how you are going to build the weapon. They will require it to be a pre-ban weapon or comply with 922. SBRing a gun will not get you around 922.

Finding Virgin US made receivers is real easy, Group Industries Auction put 15,000 of them on the market. Kentucky Imports sells them.

A mill and a lathe will convert the sear, but you will need a welder also for the top cover and lower. For the bolt, you will have to take the temper out first and then it's not real easy. Even then, you will need to buy or fabricate the striker assembly. You will also need a different recoil spring assembly.

Full Auto, full size UZIs fire from an open bolt. So again, you will have your hands full with the bolt modifications required. Get rid of the rail on one side, remove fixed firing pin, drill for floating firing pin and mill rear for same pin, remove lip from bolt face, add groove to side of bolt for blocking bar and re-heat treat for hardness.

GOOD LUCK! It wont be easy, but it has been done by others. Karl.

 

[mark214]

but you will need a welder also for the top cover and lower.

I just removed the ratchet assy from a top cover and
it works fine.
The lower will require a small block to restrict the selector.

GOOD LUCK! It wont be easy, but it has been done by others.

It not being easy is part of the fun!

Karl.

 

[Quarterbore]

Wow, thanks for the info....

Here is the UZI Receivers...

http://www.kyimports.com/specials.htm

Hell, for $39 each I can afford to get a couple to tinker with.... the problem with NFA stuff is that one needs to be very careful that you don't get enough full auto parts into the same gun to land oneself in Club Fed for 10-years!

Just the same, I think I will look into ordering a receiver even if I need to buy the Victor Semi Auto parts later?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl, I am sure you know this but just for eveybody else....

The 922(r) requirements are the IMPORT laws and I don't have a link handy.... The Crime Bill (pre-Ban vs Post-Ban) is NOT a 922(r) issue... This is actually located in PART 178--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION of the Gun Control Act as in the link on my website as below...

http://quarterbore.com/library/law/crimebill.html

If the Crime bill dies, this will have NO EFFECT on the 922(r) import regulations!

 

[KarlPMann]

Sorry, I mix up the AW ban of '94 with the import ban of '89. I just blur them together. My point is, while these laws don't keep you from making an SBR, you still must comply with them on the number of AW features. In other words, you can't have a folding stock and threaded barrel and such. So, you can build an SBR from a new receiver so long as you have the 6 US parts and no AW features. So, being an SBR doesn't mean it's not a rifle, it still is, just a "short barreled" rifle. That means it must still meet the AW requirements like any other rifle. An MG doesn't. It's not a rifle or a pistol as defined by law. But you can't make an MG anyway, just build one around an already registered part. Karl.

 

[mark214]

I bought 2 for $30 ea years ago and am just getting around to actually using one of them.

 

[Quarterbore]

My point is, while these laws don't keep you from making an SBR, you still must comply with them on the number of AW features. In other words, you can't have a folding stock and threaded barrel and such.

No Contest... the Crime bill does apply to SBRs... AOWs are not rifles or pistols or Shotguns so the crime bill does not apply...

So, you can build an SBR from a new receiver so long as you have the 6 US parts <SNIP>.

NOPE! I can have ZERO US PARTS and it is still legal!!! The Quote above was from the ATF and they said... 922(r) does not apply to NFA weapons.... as in SBR and AOWs or Machineguns.

So, being an SBR doesn't mean it's not a rifle, it still is, just a "short barreled" rifle. That means it must still meet the AW requirements like any other rifle. An MG doesn't. It's not a rifle or a pistol as defined by law. But you can't make an MG anyway, just build one around an already registered part. Karl.

Again correct!

I think you are ONLY missing the part that the 922(r) import regulations do NOT apply to NFA registered weapons as Full Auto, SBR, and AOW.

You may also not know that the 922(r) only applies to semi automatic weapons. In as much, if you make a BOLT ACTION, PUMP, or something else (lever action Uzi?) that isn't semi automatic then the 922(r) requirements also would not apply...

Oh well, I tried....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

mark214,

How do you like the receiver?

I am still waiting for confirmation from Sarco about the Parts Kit that I tried to order as I can't call from work and I tried to get an E-mail confirmation... I need to sell some of my recently acquired toys to free up some cash but I think I would love to try and build an UZI but the whole open Bolt issue is a huge pain to contemplate... oh well, I have enough other projects that I am looking at trying so I can try one of the more established projects and then come back to the UZI later...?

 

[KarlPMann]

It's not really all that difficult if you just buy the semi auto bolt assembly. That would be the hardest part. The other parts from the FA parts kit could all be easily modified. Karl.