Due to the rapidly rising costs of machine guns, I am about to purchase one of theses weapons. Are there any pitfalls to this gun and what might be the positive aspects of it. I want to shoot it some, but I also will most likely use it to help fund the little ones college plan. Please enlighten me all knowing ones...
S&W 760
- Thread starter pgreen
- Start date
stymie
FFL/C&R, UZI Talk Life Member,
The S&W 76 is a fine weapon...
pgreen...
however, the MK 760 is a poorly executed knockoff that requires considerable tweaking to run reliably. Functional mags (S&W) are quite expensive. Bolt & barrel metalurgy is somewhat soft. Accuracy is lacking as well.
How about a Swedish K?
pgreen...
however, the MK 760 is a poorly executed knockoff that requires considerable tweaking to run reliably. Functional mags (S&W) are quite expensive. Bolt & barrel metalurgy is somewhat soft. Accuracy is lacking as well.
How about a Swedish K?
pgreen, a little rough history here (I'm sure an RKI will correct the details):
Carl Gustaf designed the Model 45 (yes, it was adopted by the Swedish Army in 1945), a.k.a. the Swedish K, a great subgun that can use both 36-round stick mags or 72-round Suomi drums.
U.S. Special Forces used them in the '50s and '60s, but when we became involved in the Vietnam conflict in the late '60s, Sweden cut off all arms sales to the U.S. military.
U.S. military then turned to S&W and asked them to produce something like the M45, and they pretty much came up with a clone of it, the S&W 76. (The M45 was not covered by any U.S. patents.) In reality, because the U.S. military already had a lot of Swedish Ks, most of the 7,000 transferable S&W 76's went to U.S. law enforcement.
Meanwhile, several companies (four, IIRC) decided to clone the now-popular S&W '76 to supply the civilian NFA market and thus created the MK 760, a clone of a clone.
Lest we forget, John Stemple also came up with yet another clone but in .45 caliber, the Stemple 76/45.
Neither the MK 760 nor the Stemple can use the drum mags, nor can most S&W 76s.
Each generation away from the original had some changes, both for function and for ease of manufacture. And each new generation was cheaper than the preceding one, so assembly quality on anything except a C&R original Carl Gustaf M45 is an iffy proposition.
The good news is that since manufacture of new MGs was banned in '86, most of the existing MGs have been fixed and tuned, so they are usually less troublesome today than when they were new.
All will either run fine, or can be made to do so. All are fun submachine guns, and like all registered NFA all are appreciating to one degree or another.
Still, both the workmanship and the value of each generation is less than the previous one.
HTH.
Carl Gustaf designed the Model 45 (yes, it was adopted by the Swedish Army in 1945), a.k.a. the Swedish K, a great subgun that can use both 36-round stick mags or 72-round Suomi drums.
U.S. Special Forces used them in the '50s and '60s, but when we became involved in the Vietnam conflict in the late '60s, Sweden cut off all arms sales to the U.S. military.
U.S. military then turned to S&W and asked them to produce something like the M45, and they pretty much came up with a clone of it, the S&W 76. (The M45 was not covered by any U.S. patents.) In reality, because the U.S. military already had a lot of Swedish Ks, most of the 7,000 transferable S&W 76's went to U.S. law enforcement.
Meanwhile, several companies (four, IIRC) decided to clone the now-popular S&W '76 to supply the civilian NFA market and thus created the MK 760, a clone of a clone.
Lest we forget, John Stemple also came up with yet another clone but in .45 caliber, the Stemple 76/45.
Neither the MK 760 nor the Stemple can use the drum mags, nor can most S&W 76s.
Each generation away from the original had some changes, both for function and for ease of manufacture. And each new generation was cheaper than the preceding one, so assembly quality on anything except a C&R original Carl Gustaf M45 is an iffy proposition.
The good news is that since manufacture of new MGs was banned in '86, most of the existing MGs have been fixed and tuned, so they are usually less troublesome today than when they were new.
All will either run fine, or can be made to do so. All are fun submachine guns, and like all registered NFA all are appreciating to one degree or another.
Still, both the workmanship and the value of each generation is less than the previous one.
HTH.
You're smart to get a machine gun. they're rising in price exponentially. Vector Uzis took off last year and doubled in value. Mac M11/9's are doing the same thing right now.
Here's some predictable advice ....
I've got an Uzi and I love it. Its a very versatile gun. It shoots 9mm at about 500-600 rpm. Its very controllable and accurate. Want faster? Stick in a $10 buffer and the rate of fire increases to around 800-900 depending on ammo. Want to shoot 45 acp or 22? You can buy conversions to do this that do not require gunsmithing. I routinely swap between 9mm and 45 acp at the range. The 45 conversion costs $300. For another $300, you can buy a converted lower that makes use of 30 round grease gun mags (these cost $15 NIW).
There are other pluses to an Uzi. Its very reliable and very simple. It makes an AK look complicated. New barrels cost $25 and can be swapped at the range in 30 seconds. You can buy a parts kit (spare everything) for $150. The mags are plentiful and relatively cheap. 32 round IMI mags (the best) go for $35. 25 round mags for $15. Its a very versatile gun.
I have a Mac M11/9 on the way, but I know it won't be as good of a gun as my Uzi. I primarily got it because I saw prices begin to rise on them last summer. Since then, they have taken off.
Buy a used one if you just want to shoot it. Chances are, someone has run 10,000 rounds through it --- meaning it still has 98% of its life left in it. Get a registered receiver gun -- not a bolt -- so you can swap calibers. Shooting it in 45 acp is definitely fun if not expensive.
Here's some predictable advice ....
I've got an Uzi and I love it. Its a very versatile gun. It shoots 9mm at about 500-600 rpm. Its very controllable and accurate. Want faster? Stick in a $10 buffer and the rate of fire increases to around 800-900 depending on ammo. Want to shoot 45 acp or 22? You can buy conversions to do this that do not require gunsmithing. I routinely swap between 9mm and 45 acp at the range. The 45 conversion costs $300. For another $300, you can buy a converted lower that makes use of 30 round grease gun mags (these cost $15 NIW).
There are other pluses to an Uzi. Its very reliable and very simple. It makes an AK look complicated. New barrels cost $25 and can be swapped at the range in 30 seconds. You can buy a parts kit (spare everything) for $150. The mags are plentiful and relatively cheap. 32 round IMI mags (the best) go for $35. 25 round mags for $15. Its a very versatile gun.
I have a Mac M11/9 on the way, but I know it won't be as good of a gun as my Uzi. I primarily got it because I saw prices begin to rise on them last summer. Since then, they have taken off.
Buy a used one if you just want to shoot it. Chances are, someone has run 10,000 rounds through it --- meaning it still has 98% of its life left in it. Get a registered receiver gun -- not a bolt -- so you can swap calibers. Shooting it in 45 acp is definitely fun if not expensive.
I have a S&W 76 and i like it alot.I have had no problems with mine.I have fired about 3500rds through it,it was virtual new when i got it.Original 76 mags are expensive but you can buy Souimi(sp)
mags for $9.99 and just hit the front with file three or four times,they are a little wide front to back but work great.
I just got my Vector Uzi and i love it.There is just so much more you can buy for the Uzi,parts kits,22lr,45acp kits,cheap mags.
The uzi has gone up in price buy if you look you can find them for around $4300 which is what i paid this september new in the box.The S&W 76
is up around $5000 so if it was me (and i have both)i would look for the Uzi first,the 22lr kit is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
it's nice going to the range firing 500rds and spending only $10 for brick of 22's.
Thw S&W 76 was first and i will not sell it but if i was doing over the i would have gotten Uzi first.
Kevin
mags for $9.99 and just hit the front with file three or four times,they are a little wide front to back but work great.
I just got my Vector Uzi and i love it.There is just so much more you can buy for the Uzi,parts kits,22lr,45acp kits,cheap mags.
The uzi has gone up in price buy if you look you can find them for around $4300 which is what i paid this september new in the box.The S&W 76
is up around $5000 so if it was me (and i have both)i would look for the Uzi first,the 22lr kit is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
it's nice going to the range firing 500rds and spending only $10 for brick of 22's.
Thw S&W 76 was first and i will not sell it but if i was doing over the i would have gotten Uzi first.
Kevin
MuzzleFlash / Gun Shot
Thanks for the welome and Happy holidays to everyone.
My first post was a Question about which Uzi to buy i had a choice
between a HTA RR and a Vector.I knew nothing about Uzi's at that time and recieved alot of good info from people in that post and from reading other posts on this board.I have been reading the board almost everyday,but have not been making posts just getting lots of good information.I do like my S&W 76 but I just love my UZi,now that i have the 22lr kit i go at least once a week to the range and shoot 500rds of 22.When i shoot 9mm the 76 and the Uzi both get equal time,but the 76 is starting to stay home more.I let alot of people shot both guns and there faces just light up when shooting the Uzi with the 22lr kit.Several pro-gun / why do you need a machine gun guys have had their views changed after shooting the 22lr kit.I think that is one of the plus's that alot of guys don't look at.with the 22lr kit you can let everybody try it , and not worry about the cost of amm
ne guy who always asked why do you need a machine gun would come to the range every monday and fire 30 rds of .357 mag.I let him
the Uzi with the 22 kit and he did not want too stop,iam sure it would have been the same if it was in 9mm,but with the 22 i did not care and both of us had spent the same on ammo,but he got 50 and i got 500.NFA is a very small part of the shooting world and everbody we can get on our side is a plus.Even if they don't buy but accept "machine guns".There are only 4 of us at my range,a few how would like too and now afew how accept .I think
everybody looking to buy should look for a 22lr kit for their gun.
Merry Christmas
Kevin
Thanks for the welome and Happy holidays to everyone.
My first post was a Question about which Uzi to buy i had a choice
between a HTA RR and a Vector.I knew nothing about Uzi's at that time and recieved alot of good info from people in that post and from reading other posts on this board.I have been reading the board almost everyday,but have not been making posts just getting lots of good information.I do like my S&W 76 but I just love my UZi,now that i have the 22lr kit i go at least once a week to the range and shoot 500rds of 22.When i shoot 9mm the 76 and the Uzi both get equal time,but the 76 is starting to stay home more.I let alot of people shot both guns and there faces just light up when shooting the Uzi with the 22lr kit.Several pro-gun / why do you need a machine gun guys have had their views changed after shooting the 22lr kit.I think that is one of the plus's that alot of guys don't look at.with the 22lr kit you can let everybody try it , and not worry about the cost of amm
ne guy who always asked why do you need a machine gun would come to the range every monday and fire 30 rds of .357 mag.I let himthe Uzi with the 22 kit and he did not want too stop,iam sure it would have been the same if it was in 9mm,but with the 22 i did not care and both of us had spent the same on ammo,but he got 50 and i got 500.NFA is a very small part of the shooting world and everbody we can get on our side is a plus.Even if they don't buy but accept "machine guns".There are only 4 of us at my range,a few how would like too and now afew how accept .I think
everybody looking to buy should look for a 22lr kit for their gun.
Merry Christmas
Kevin
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