Need bolt lip rebuilt on Mod A

mlee36

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I just found your site and I must say it is very informative. I am sure I will be visiting it regularly.

I have a model A I purchased new in 1982. I modified it legally to selective fire by building a lip on the bolt face (among other things). It worked for a while until the welded piece broke off. I would like to have it repaired by an expert gunsmith who will do a first rate job on the weld, so it will not break again.

Or is there a bolt available which will work with the model A for this purpose?

Since I have been under a rock for the last 20 years, I have lost touch with the Uzi market and available parts.

Would someone please advise me on the best course of action?

Mike
 

RoverDave

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mlee36, welcome to Uzitalk! I'm glad you found us.

You'll need to tell us a little bit more about the conversion of your semi before anyone could tell you the best alternative. Is it now an open or closed bolt gun? Was the blocking rail removed during your conversion?
 

mlee36

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It is still closed bolt. I removed the selector block which was welded in front of the selector bar. and modified the bolt lip so as not to catch the cartridge on the firing pin when the round is chambered in FA mode. I did not remove the bloching rail. Those were the only changes.

I followed the instructions from the "FULL AUTO Volume Two" Semi-Auto UZI Modification Manual (1981).
 
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RoverDave

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One more question. You said it was modified legally, which means that either the bolt or the receiver was registered. Which was it? If the bolt was registered (which is my guess since the blocking rail was not removed), then your only option is to repair the existing bolt. If that's the case, then you might want to check with Vector to see if they'd do the repair on the bolt. If they're willing to, they'd be my first choice.
 

mlee36

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I only know that I had to attach an explanation of the modification to the ATF form when it was submitted. In it I clearly described the modification to the bolt and the lower. The receiver was not altered, but I had to engrave my tax stamp # and name, address, etc. on the receiver. The bolt has no markings, not even a serial #.

Does this make sense? Like I said, it has been 20 years, but I still have the original ATF papers and the modification manual I went by.

So, the question is: "Is this a registered receiver, bolt or both?"

Thanks,
Mike
 

dustindu4

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Does the serial number on your paperwork match the number on the receiver or bolt?
 

dustindu4

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Oh you said the bolt has no number. So if the serial # on your form matches the number on your receiver then you have a registered receiver.

I'd send the whole thing to Vector and have them rebuild the thing to SMG spec and refinish it for $300.
 

mlee36

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Thanks guys! I will check with Vector. The finish is perfect though. I probably only fired 500 rounds through it and none in the past 18 years.

I could make the part myself, like I originally did. However, the welding seems to be the key to a quality modification.
 

stymie

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Sounds like the bolt is *married* to the receiver. I'd talk to an ATF Specialist at Tech Branch for clarification.

I'd recommend Specialist Denise Brown at (202)927-7910.
 

mlee36

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Ask them if you can just send it to Vector (or whoever) and have the bolt destroyed and the receiver blocking bar removed.

1. If they allowed this, what would be required to complete the modification? I assume I need a ratchet top cover and a FA bolt.

2. Does the new bolt have to be a previously registered bolt at a cost of several thousand dollars? Or will an FA bolt I have seen advertised from $80-$124 be allowed?
 

treedawg

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Could be that I'm the only member that's confused about this gun and how it's registered, but every time I think I have it figured out something is posted that makes me question if or how the gun was registered. It's probably just a case where Mlee isn't sure aboout the registration and I'm just confused, which isn't the 1st time i've been confused over a simple matter.

TD
 
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mlee36

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Treedawg-

I assure you it is registered. And everything I posted previously is true. I simply want to get the bolt repaired to enable FA fire without the jams that I get now after 2-3 rounds on FA. I can still fire it perfectly in SA mode.

However, since I have access to a wealth of knowledge here, I am exploring all possibilities for this weapon. As I said before, I had this done 20 years ago, but I still have all of the paperwork.

Thanks,
Mike
 

mlee36

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I may have found the answer to my question about using a FA bolt. It would seem that since the receiver itself has never been modified, it is too late now to alter it to allow use of the Uzi SMG bolt. At least that is the case if this post is considered to be factual.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter46.txt

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226

OCT -1 1998 F:FPD:FTB:GKD
3311


Dear Mr. :

This refers to your letter of July 21, 1998, requesting
information on permissible modifications to Uzi firearms that
have been converted to machineguns and registered in the National
Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR). Your
questions will be answered in the order received in the letter.

1. If an Uzi type firearm was registered as a machinegun and
the conversion involved making a bolt to fit in the
semiautomatic receiver, with no modifications to the
receiver, can the receiver be legally modified now, so that
the standard factory Uzi machinegun parts may be used? What
if the bolt made to fit the semiautomatic type receiver is
destroyed as part of modifying the receiver to accept a
standard machinegun bolt?

Destruction of the registered Uzi conversion bolt would not allow
modifications to the semiautomatic Uzi receiver to allow it to
accept an Uzi machinegun type bolt. The alterations to the
receiver necessary to accomplish installation of an Uzi
machinegun bolt would result in the making of a machinegun, as
the altered receiver would be a machinegun configuration frame or
receiver. It is unlawful for anyone to make a machinegun except
as provided in 18 U.S.C. section 922(o).

2. If an Uzi semiautomatic carbine is converted into a
machinegun with a slotted conversion bolt which is itself
registered as a machinegun, may other remaining features of
the semiautomatic firearm be removed? In particular;

(a) May the barrel retaining ring, an integral part of the
feed ramp in the semiautomatic Uzi carbine, be removed?

- 2 -

Mr.

(b) May the barrel trunnion be bored out so that the gun
will accept unmodified Uzi machinegun barrels?

(c) May the sear openings in the bottom of the receiver be
enlarged up to permit the use of a full automatic style
sear?

(d) May the model name (only) of the semiautomatic carbine
marked on the left side of the receiver be removed and
replaced with a more appropriate marking for an Uzi
machinegun?

The alterations described above as (a), (b), and (c), done to a
semiautomatic configuration Uzi carbine receiver, would not be
prohibited, as they do not convert the semiautomatic receiver
into the configuration of a machinegun frame or receiver.

With reference to altering the markings, as described in (d),
this would be permissible provided that no markings are removed,
altered or obliterated that would result in a violation of Title
18 United States Code (U.S.C.), Chapter 44, section 922(k) or
Title 26 U.S.C., Chapter 53, section 5861(g).

We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If we can be of further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely, yours,

[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
 

dustindu4

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Ok I understand the ATF's logic in that answer. It's just like if you had registered an AR-15 and put in a DIAS that doesn't have the serial number. Just because the receiver is registered, that doesn't mean you're allowed to toss the DIAS and drill the hole for a milspec sear. The result would end up as two machine guns, the receiver w/the drilled hole and the DIAS which has no serial #.

So in the case of this gun, the receiver is the receiver and the modified bolt is like the DIAS. You can't modify the receiver because you could technically take that modified bolt and make a machine gun.

They don't care about proof of destroying it, it's not good enough. In their eyes you took 1 machine gun and made 2 out of it. So that covers modifying the receiver to accept an SMG bolt,
can't do.

What you might be able to do however (I THINK DON'T LISTEN TO ME) is take another semi bolt and cut it to fit and function in your receiver like you did with the first one and chuck the original modified bolt. My logic for this is that I'm under the impression that if you have a registered AR-15 that takes a non-serialed DIAS and the DIAS were to break, you can replace it with one of those pre-81 DIAS things you see for sale all the time AS LONG AS YOU DON'T OWN ANOTHER AR-15. That makes constructive possession. So if you own another semi UZI don't do this. Maybe somebody can back this up I don't know, this is just my theory.
 

RoverDave

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dustindu4 said:
What you might be able to do however (I THINK DON'T LISTEN TO ME) is take another semi bolt and cut it to fit and function in your receiver like you did with the first one and chuck the original modified bolt. My logic for this is that I'm under the impression that if you have a registered AR-15 that takes a non-serialed DIAS and the DIAS were to break, you can replace it with one of those pre-81 DIAS things you see for sale all the time AS LONG AS YOU DON'T OWN ANOTHER AR-15. That makes constructive possession. So if you own another semi UZI don't do this. Maybe somebody can back this up I don't know, this is just my theory.

As everyone has pointed out, only asking the ATF will resolve the issue, but I doubt you would be allowed to make a new bolt. Cutting the slot in a new bolt would be considered manufacturing a new machine gun and not allowed.

The strange thing about mlee36's conversion is that he said the receiver is unmodified and therefore must have the blocking bar still in it. That means the bolt must have a slot cut in it. Normally the bolt would be the registered part in that sort of conversion, but he said that the bolt has no serial number on it. That's very odd. If all of that is true, then I'd guess the ATF considers the bolt to be married to that receiver and neither of them could be swapped out.
 

mlee36

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I spoke to Vector Arms. They can repair my bolt and have done so many times.

I will get a ruling from BATF on modifying the receiver later.

Thanks for all of your help and I will let you know their decision.

Mike
 

stymie

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That's great news!

mlee36...

You'll be dealing with some of the greatest customer service people in the industry. Rex, Ralph, Mike, Johna & Debbie will take great care of you.

Good luck with your ruling inquiry!
 

JClem555

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mlee36 said:
I spoke to Vector Arms. They can repair my bolt and have done so many times.

I will get a ruling from BATF on modifying the receiver later.

Thanks for all of your help and I will let you know their decision.

Mike

If you do not mind me asking, how much did they quote you to fix the lip?
 

mlee36

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I haven't gotten a price yet. I only inquired if they could/would do it. They did say they had done it many times though. I'm sure the price will be reasonable and well worth the money spent.
 
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