HELP - I'm in steel-mag hell

[AZ Doug]

When your mags are loaded is the top round of each magazine held at the same angle? If not it could be a feed lip adjustment.

With an empty mag take a screwdriver and compress the magazine spring. Does the spring compress and expand smoothly? If it does not the mag body, spring or follower could be the problem. Try swapping one part at a time with another mag to find out where the problem is, mag body, spring or follower.

Once the bolt has stripped a round from the mag, chambered it and fired it, on the rearward stroke of the bolt, the bottom of the bolt contacts and moves across the top of the next cartridge in the magazine. It is normal that you will see some markings on that cartridge from the bolt, but the bolt should not be deforming it. To me that would be a sign of the mag being held too high, or the feed lips of the magazine being open to wide and letting the cartridge sit too high. (There could be several reasons for a mag being held too high that I will explain later)

To check and see if the magazine is being held to high disassemble the magazine and insert the body only. Move the bolt back and forth by hand and see/feel if the magazine feed lips are making contact with/rubbing on the bottom of the bolt. If the feed lips of that magazine are making contact with the bottom of the bolt there could be at least 3 reasons. Mag catch too long, feed lips deformed and sitting higher than other mags and last the notch cut on the back of the magazine for the mag catch to engage is cut at the wrong height.

If the bolt does make contact with the feed lips of that magazine I would first compare those feed lips to the ones on a functioning magazine. Do they appear to be opened up more, and/or sitting higher? If so adjust the feed lips. If the feed lips on both magazines appear to be the same then strip the functioning magazine and perform the same test with it. Do the top of the feed lips make contact with the bottom of the bolt? If so test several more magazines in the same manner. If the feed lips on all of your magazines are making contact then your mag catch could be too high and metal may have to be removed from the top of the mag catch or the top of the engagement notch on the magazine. You may want to perform the test with Zytel mags also, because if they fit and function fine then removing metal from the top of the mag catch could cause them to malfunction.

If only the feed lips of that particular magazine or only the metal mags are making contact with the bottom of the bolt you may want to remove some metal from the top of the slot the mag catch engages on the magazine. Remove a little at a time until the feed lips no longer make contact with the bottom of the bolt.

I hope any of this helps, because I know how frustrating it can be.

Doug

 

[SC-Texas]

When your mags are loaded is the top round of each magazine held at the same angle? If not it could be a feed lip adjustment.

Yes they appear to be.

With an empty mag take a screwdriver and compress the magazine spring. Does the spring compress and expand smoothly? If it does not the mag body, spring or follower could be the problem. Try swapping one part at a time with another mag to find out where the problem is, mag body, spring or follower.

Yes it does. Checked this yeasterday and this morning.

Once the bolt has stripped a round from the mag, chambered it and fired it, on the rearward stroke of the bolt, the bottom of the bolt contacts and moves across the top of the next cartridge in the magazine. It is normal that you will see some markings on that cartridge from the bolt, but the bolt should not be deforming it. To me that would be a sign of the mag being held too high, or the feed lips of the magazine being open to wide and letting the cartridge sit too high. (There could be several reasons for a mag being held too high that I will explain later)

I think the bolt is gouging/scratching the last round as it attempts to load the next to last round.

To check and see if the magazine is being held to high disassemble the magazine and insert the body only. Move the bolt back and forth by hand and see/feel if the magazine feed lips are making contact with/rubbing on the bottom of the bolt. If the feed lips of that magazine are making contact with the bottom of the bolt there could be at least 3 reasons. Mag catch too long, feed lips deformed and sitting higher than other mags and last the notch cut on the back of the magazine for the mag catch to engage is cut at the wrong height.

I have checked this with these mags in the past. I'll check them again tonight. I do not think the mags are sitting too high. No signs of wear on the feed lips.

If the bolt does make contact with the feed lips of that magazine I would first compare those feed lips to the ones on a functioning magazine. Do they appear to be opened up more, and/or sitting higher? If so adjust the feed lips. If the feed lips on both magazines appear to be the same then strip the functioning magazine and perform the same test with it. Do the top of the feed lips make contact with the bottom of the bolt? If so test several more magazines in the same manner. If the feed lips on all of your magazines are making contact then your mag catch could be too high and metal may have to be removed from the top of the mag catch or the top of the engagement notch on the magazine. You may want to perform the test with Zytel mags also, because if they fit and function fine then removing metal from the top of the mag catch could cause them to malfunction.

If only the feed lips of that particular magazine or only the metal mags are making contact with the bottom of the bolt you may want to remove some metal from the top of the slot the mag catch engages on the magazine. Remove a little at a time until the feed lips no longer make contact with the bottom of the bolt.

I hope any of this helps, because I know how frustrating it can be.

Doug

One thing that I am going to try is reversing the spring. i.e. the raised part of the spring will contact the rear of the follower. I did that on the three mags and the follower appears to sit more level when it contacts the feedlips.

I expect this to create a nosedive condition with the last few rounds. But we will see.

 

[SC-Texas]

I azm going to make some dummy rounds to diagnose this issue.

 

[Vegas SMG]

FWIW; There are group purchases going on for springs and followers for the converted metal Argentine PAM2 magazines on the parts & accessories board.

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23126

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22777

 

[odontia32m]

6 off mine the followers are not coming fully to the top in the rear where the primer would be. They look like they are a little different than the other followers. Should I shave them to get them looser to come to the top.

I started going through my 30 last night. I had some that were 100% and had to tweak most all the feed lips with the cresent wrench trick to look like the good ones. I noticed the springs are binding on more than half when loading.

1. How do I get the rear of the followers to the top?

2. Is there a fix for the spring binding other than buying new springs?

3. What lube is best for the inside of the mag?


Thanks,

Bob

 

[AZ Doug]

Some of these mags were obviously pieced together. Some have different followers, springs and “modified” (the kindest way I can put it) floor plates. Please don’t get me wrong, I am glad I bought them as the bodies are still good and the internals can be repaired or replaced.

As far as the followers, you must figure out where they are binding and polish the binding portion until it slides freely to the top.

Someone else may be able to help you with the spring problem. I do not know of a solution other than to replacing them.

Silicone spray seems to work for a lubricant for magazines. For years I have used break free to lubricate magazines. I would apply a small amount and then try to wipe it off. This would leave a film on the surface. Too much oil will collect dust and dirt. Also if the magazine is left loaded for extended periods of time the excess oil could penetrate the primer and deactivate it. You and everyone reading this probably already knew that, but…

Good luck.

Doug

 

[Jeff@stonycreekarmory]

M11/9 S.A. MAGs springs, followers and base plates

Hello Friends, i have a few dozen M11/9 south African steel mag springs, followers and base plate units, sorry no mag bodies at this time.
These will work in the steel mags and also in the Zytel mags if you use your original zytel follower and base plate.
These are shorter than the Zytel OEM springs but have thicker wire and work well. I'll have these up on the web site tomorrow.
I have some STen 32rnd mag springs and UZI 32rnd mag spring units as well.
Pictures will be up soon.

 

[StealthyBlagga]

Update: My MAX-11 is still running 100% reliably. The combination of the modified magazine feed lips and the adjusted feedramp work beautifully. As this subject comes up from time to time, it might be worthwhile to tack this thread.

 

[Bocefus]

All 20 of my Recon mags work 100% after only a few minor tweaks. I do not cut down the feedlips like the zytels, but do adjust the feedlips to get an angle that works.

Using standard Calipers, the feedlip spacing should measure the following:

Rear(base of round) .5"
Middle .75"
Front(where nose of bullet is)
.90-93"

I adjust the feedlips using a crescent wrench to widen the lips, and tap the feelips with a hammer to narrow them.

When this is done, insert magazine into gun and see if the bolt contacts the feedlips. If it does, simply dremel the magazine catch lower until it doesn't contact the feed lips.

Then I load the mag fully and manually release the rounds by hand. If the rounds don't hang up, then you should be fine. If the spring preasure is too weak and the rounds hang up, you will likely have to replace the spring. I only had 4-5 of my mags that needed new springs, so I used the Wolff 32rnd Uzi springs for those.

 

[Quarterbore]

wow... I needed this info!

 

[SC-Texas]

Bump for the latest question about Recon Ord Mags