Ciener kit parts help

[Brian Ski]

I was going to get around and order the return spring for my M16 22 kit that let loose.... Any other parts I should include as long as I am ordering???

 

[Vegas SMG]

I understand that the firing pins are subject to frequent breakage but I've never been able to get my kit to run in full auto so it sits idle. I would gladly buy a recoil spring from you if you place an order from JAC for a couple of them just so I don't have to deal with his questionable service. Please let me know...

 

[amphibian]

For the recoil spring, I highly recommend you get the spring from Lakeside Machine. His springs work better than the Ciener ones. The are the same diameter but longer. Just cut to length until it runs right.

For the firing pin, I have broken at least 4 of them then got fed up and made one from an M16 5.56 firing pin. Since then, I have never broken it.

 

[raffica]

ciener firing pin/springs

Amphibian is right on as usual! the Eric's (Lakeside Machine) springs work great, and making a pin out of an AR pin will quite possibly be the last one you need. don't forget to clean the hole the firing pin spring sets in. it gets real dirty and contributes to breakage.
I made one, and haven't broken it yet, though I've only shot about 2-3K of dynapoint since replacing it.

 

[Vegas SMG]

I was aware that Lakeside Machine was offering these springs but didn't want to take time away from the .22 belt feed upper project Eric is working on. I didn't realize he had space dedicated on his site specifically for the springs. I'm ordering next week!

http://www.lakesideguns.com/title1/spring.html

 

[Brian Ski]

I was aware that Lakeside Machine was offering these springs but didn't want to take time away from the .22 belt feed upper project Eric is working on. I didn't realize he had space dedicated on his site specifically for the springs. I'm ordering next week!

http://www.lakesideguns.com/title1/spring.html

Well 3 for $10 ain't bad... Anyone know of a replacement washer for the spring guide rod??? It is gone somewhere...

I should call Lakeside anyway to see where I am on the list...

I hated to bother them but it looks like 640,000 are ahead of me in line....



Yea I know!!!!

 

[Vegas SMG]

I ordered my three for ten dollars, (price includes shipping!) springs today.

 

[Brian Ski]

I can see why nobody orders from him.... Won't answer the phone... Called several times... Won't take credit cards... Holds checks for 2 weeks... If you want a kit print out form and mail in, but if you want parts.....Keep calling....

http://www.22lrconversions.com/index.htm

 

[Vegas SMG]

I received my springs from Lakeside yeasterday. Ten bucks for the three springs with the shipping included. I'm hopeful that I can find time this weekend to test and tune the Ceiner kit I've had for some time. It runs perfectly in semi but full is another matter. Ive got several things and tips I need to try.

I'm also mulling over the information they included on the LM7 .22 beltfeed upper. Damn it! I know I need one! I'll see what's left after I pay my taxes next week....

 

[Brian Ski]

Those dogs!!! They didn't give me any literature!!!!

Although I did get my springs from them Monday... That was fast...

To bad I have spent more money in phone calls to Ciener's answering machine than what the parts would cost thru him... Must have placed over 20 calls....

I know I will meet up with him at the creek and he will say he does not have any parts with him!!!!

 

[Vegas SMG]

My wife accuses me of having girlfriends in most every state. Carrie of Lakeside Machine is now my new girlfriend in Pound WI.

I'm 'gonna start with the new springs, some good advise from Joe Black, as well as the polishing and smoothing I've already done and see if I can get this POS to run in F.A. I bought the mags during the ban for a hundred bucks each so I've got an investment I need to salvage. If I could get this to run as well as my Vector UZI kit I'd be a happy man. If not, well, I may HAVE to spend the $1,750.00 for the beltfeed kit.

 

[Vegas SMG]

Forgot to post this link on dealing with the Ceiner .22 kit. Lots of good information here including the correct spring length.

http://home.netcom.com/~uzisubgun/id3.html

 

[Brian Ski]

Follow up.... Found JAC at the creek, had to wait in line for about 20 minutes while he was making a deal and running around hugging passers by.... I told him I have been trying to call for a couple weeks and about the spring and losing the washer off the guide rod and he said that was one of the really old styles... He dug in a box and pulled out a new spring and guide rod and said just mail me back the old ones.... Seems to have been in a good mood...

 

[Vegas SMG]

I clipped off 10 or so coils from the Lakeside recoil spring for the Attchinson/Ciener kit as seen HERE. At first the gun ran just as crappy as before but I kept shooting it and swearing. After a couple of mags, I managed a five shot string then a ten shot burst, the longest ever with the kit! After a couple more mags, the gun was running almost 100%! In fact, I had a stretch of 6 30 round mags with only 1 failure!!! It's like having a new gun! Shooting .22 in full auto is just too cool and I'm totally pumped getting this conversion kit running!

The ROF seems faster than the UZI in .22, and due to it's design is very inaccurate. Still, this expensive POS I've had sitting around for almost two years is now running in F.A. and running very well. I started with CCI Minimags and then switched to bulk pack Remington Golden bullets from WalMart. Both of these gave excellent performance. I also tried some Winchester Dynapoints but couldn't get more than a few short bursts per mag... it didn't seem to have enough energy to cycle the bolt 100%. I also tried CCI subsonic and it turned the gun into a single shot. Bear in mind that no can was used in these "tests" so the added back pressure may make a difference when using these two brands of ammo.

Brian Ski, try the installing one of the new springs you just got, lube the contact areas well, and shoot a few mags through it to "wear" it to your gun. I hope your results duplicate mine!

 

[Brian Ski]

Vegas... Are you using a 22 barrel or the adapter and the 223 barrel??? And did you try the springs without cutting any off or go right to a shortened one???

 

[Brian Ski]

Brian Ski, try the installing one of the new springs you just got, lube the contact areas well, and shoot a few mags through it to "wear" it to your gun. I hope your results duplicate mine!

Not quite a duplicate... I put the whole full length Lakeside spring in... Lubed well... It was a bear trying to get the whole spring in place, it is pretty long... 1st mag 100%, 2nd mag 3 jams, all were because of extraction problems brass was getting caught in the breech... I remember mag height problems... I tweaked the mag so it was snug and pulled down on it... next 2 mags 100%.

Kind of neat running a suppressor... In the back yard, 3 neighbors doing yard work... Not even a mower running... Nobody heard nothing... Suppressors make friendly neighbors!!!!

 

[Vegas SMG]

I'm using a well worn 14 1/2" Bushmaster barrel with the unmodified Ciener kit. The barrels and conversions to the Atchinson / Ciener kit as done by Rick Kuel (sp?) are the way to go, but I just didn't want to spend that kind of money for a .22 kit. Seems like I paid $350.00 shipped for the thing when I bought it, and was happy to get it. The seller told me it ran great in his gun... yeah right, whatever.

I clipped about 10 coils off the spring before installing and it was still a tough fit. Most of my failures later in the day were spent cases that stuck in the ejection port but this was after the kit was very dirty, close to 700+ rounds.

I'm so frickin' happy with this thing the guys at the DBS thought I was nuts! It really is like having a new gun huh?

 

[Brian Ski]

I had a guy make me a custom barrel. I think it is about 5" and threaded... I took off the 223 adapter and did a little mod to the kit. I bought an extra upper and it is a permanent 22 upper... I bought the kit used for around $130... It seems to be one of the really old ones.. (Ciener said) Sure was a tough fit to put the whole spring in... I think it shot across the room a couple times...

Spent cases in the ejection port??? I was told it could be the mag is too high... I tweaked mine a little wider to give it a snug fit, lock it in place and then pulled down on it... Ran great... BTW I was also told you may need a couple turns of teflon tape around the 223 adapter to make more of a gas seal... If you are having problems with ejection/bolt not going far enough back....

BTW it is a neat addition to the gun!!! At least when it works!!!

 

[Vegas SMG]

I tried the teflon tape "cure" when I first got the unit. It doesn't last more than a few rounds and didn't solve anything. I'm sure my failures to clear the ejection port were a direct result of the entire bolt assembly being horribly dirty as all these came late in the day. I'm sure a good cleaning of the bolt, extractor, and chamber will make things right once more.

Gald to hear you also got things working well!

 

[nobody]

Bought a Ciener kit for my semi-auto AR-15 and the kit does not fit into the upper receiver - it is about 30 thousandths too long. I know this does not sound like much, but it causes the edge of the back plate of the kit (where the rails connect) to hit the buffer retainer (tit), when you attempt to close the upper receiver onto the lower receiver. I confirmed this using a dab of white paint on the buffer retainer (tit). The same installation problem exists with four different ARs - a mix of Colt, Oly, and Rock River/Model 1 products.

Of course this was after I had installed the kit for the first time and the back plate slipped behind the buffer retainer and I had to disassemble the buffer tube to get the upper and lower receivers apart - FMN.

I separated the 22 "chamber" from the rails and inserted each into the upper receiver independently. The chamber inserts freely into the 5.56 mm chamber of the upper receiver; and the rails/back plate assembly inserts all the way so the rails touch the face of the locking lugs with the back plate being flush with the rear end of the upper receiver (no more 30 thousandths sticking out). So the problem only occurs when the 22 chamber and rails are assembled – something seems out of spec.

Any advise before I call the guy at Ciener ?? You know, the guy who does not answer the phone, and if he does, he will not tell you that your order has been received and/or has shipped.