Hi and value question

[BobinColo]

Hi Guys,

I just joined up because I was bequeathed a 1981 RPB M10 9mm SAP. It is hardly used and has two magazines, but no other accessories. I've got lots of other firearms and have been shooting my whole life. I'm trying to decide if I should keep this for the novelty and historic value to shoot occasionally, or sell it to fund some other items that I have been eyeing. Another thought is what is the process to legally convert this to FA? What appears to be rust or corrosion in the photo is just the deteriorating foam from being stored for years and years. It was still quite well coated in oil with hardly any visible wear or damage. I don't have a better pic to share right now. Serial Number 81-000xxxx. Any opinions on how much I might start trying to sell it or for or reasons to keep it would really be appreciated. Thanks in advance and best regards.

 

[root]

No way to convert to legal full auto after may 19th 1986 for the average citizen.
The open bolt guns seem to be 1200 and up now days for "reasons"

They are more a collectable then anything now days there are guys that collect the pre 82 OB guns.

As far as selling that is up to you doesn't appear to be in bad shape grab some ammo and see if you like it.
That has always determined if I buy a gun ( shoot 1st ) or sell it ( bought without shooting 1st)

My one suggestion would be to get a barrel extension for it so you can safely shoot it with two hands. They are a heavy pistol.
Or if you decide to keep it a suppressor to hang onto so you,don't get a hand or finger in front of the danger end.

We have a member that shot his own hand a few years back with a full auto M11/9 he was a doctor.
he posted some pix. Pretty nast whole in his hand.
Sucky way to mess up your career.

Oh welcome to uzitalk

 

[Deerhurst]

No "legal" way to make it FA without travel. That said people have been adding to the tranaferrable registry since the 1986 cutoff. Just have to have deep pockets and bribe the right person/people.

Shoot it and see what's up. I have a file about buying and selling. Never sell a gun.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

I'm new, so I've got a lot to learn about Cobray guns. Can say that you are missing a "locking pin"(it goes inside the large front pin). This is what keeps the pin in. Also there is a roll pin in the rear that my M11 9mm doesn't have. To me that means FA.
Keep in mind that everything I just wrote may be wrong.
Fastest way to tell is to remove the front pin, take the upper off and take a photo of the insides of the lower.

Don’t listen to this… you are not missing anything. That is the correct pin in your gun, this guy thinks it’s a much later 2 piece style pin. Your gun has an early RPB pin that uses a very small spring steel detent inside of a hollow pin, it is correct for the gun and it’s not missing anything. The roll pin in the rear of the gun doesn’t have anything to do with it being full auto. That is where the wire stock mounting hardware goes on the machine gun version, the open bolt semi auto had a roll pin installed in the hole for no good reason (that I know of) but it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it’s full auto. I would disregard basically everything this guy said except for the part about “everything I just wrote might be wrong”

 

[root]

Didn't even notice the roll pin.

I've seen two guns in person over the years with the rear stock slits.
If your gun has that it would explain the roll pin.
It is there to keep you from just sliding in/on the regular OEM wire stock.
Or now days any M10 stock since there are a pile in the aftermarket.

If you form 1 it as a SBR you can remove the roll pin and add a stock.
Would make it friendlier and more accurate to shoot.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Didn't even notice the roll pin.

I've seen two guns in person over the years with the rear stock slits.
If your gun has that it would explain the roll pin.
It is there to keep you from just sliding in/on the regular OEM wire stock.
Or now days any M10 stock since there are a pile in the aftermarket.

If you form 1 it as a SBR you can remove the roll pin and add a stock.
Would make it friendlier and more accurate to shoot.

All of the open bolt semis have that roll pin installed in the hole for no reason. It’s not the correct pin for the stock block hardware (though it would work) and seems to be a place holder so that the gun doesn’t have an empty hole there. On the SMG that hole is for a pin that holds the collapsible wire stock hardware into the gun, the open bolt semi auto does not have that hardware installed and is empty at the rear end (except for the pointless pin). A lot of people cut open the rear end for the stock struts (illegal to mount a stock on a pistol without paperwork), never seen a factory gun that had the slots present but I’ve seen plenty that were cut open aftermarket with stock blocks installed.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Bob, if you are going to shoot it, check, or better yet replace, the buffer on the back plate of the bolt assembly. You don't want the bolt slamming into the back plate of the receiver without something to cushion it. Like the foam of the case, original open bolt buffers are known to degrade over time.

There is no legal way to register this pistol into being a machinegun for a private individual, in the United States. It is a cool collectable, with the possibility of legal entanglements down the road. The ATF ruled that open bolt firearms are easily converted to machineguns. So open bolt pistol manufacturing was ended because the ATF ruled that open bolt firearms are machineguns. In a related case a court ruled that since the ATF determined that drop in auto sears, like open bolt pistols, were machineguns, the pre determination date manufactured DIASs could not "grandfathered". Whether made before the ATF ruling that the item was a machinegun or after after, the court ruled that the ATF does not have the power to grandfather such items. That is why there are no pre-'81 DIAS for sale in Shotgun News. Of course that opens the issue of open bolt pistols made before the ATF determination of open bolt pistols being machineguns.

I would imagine that mentioning this "entanglement" will evoke some differing options. I don't own an open bolt pistol, so I don't have a dog in this fight. My purpose is to pass on information so that the owner could make an informed decision. I doubt that a tactical team will break into your home over your newly acquired inheritance. There was only one seller of pre-'81 DIASs that had a supply of them. So that stopped the commercial sale of pre-'81 DIASs. There are thousands of open bolt pistols. It would take an enormous amount of resources to track down such pistols. But unlike bump stocks, there has not been specific legislation or court order for the ATF to do something about open bolt pistols. So until there is, I doubt that the ATF will do anything about open bolt pistols that were manufactured before their open bolt pistol manufacturing ruling. What will happen in the future, I don't. YMMV.

Scott

 

[Deerhurst]

If I remember right there is no court order or law about the bumpfire stock accessories. It was an executive direction and a rogue agency decided to go outside their power to attempt to be a legislative branch when their realm is law enforcement.

I have several old open bolt firearms dating to the 1930s. They are cool pieces to save for history sake and run to shoot. No SNs and no way to trace them. No registry that the said law enforcement brace has illegally made that could capture them. Doubt any of mine have ever seen a 4473 due to their age.

Enjoy it. See if it runs. Unless someone can show me otherwise last I remember is open bolt is OK up to a certain manufacturing date. Anything made after that date is considered a MG. Same arbitrary BS as what makes a MG legal to own or not for the general public.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

If I remember right there is no court order or law about the bumpfire stock accessories. It was an executive direction and a rogue agency decided to go outside their power to attempt to be a legislative branch when their realm is law enforcement.

I have several old open bolt firearms dating to the 1930s. They are cool pieces to save for history sake and run to shoot. No SNs and no way to trace them. No registry that the said law enforcement brace has illegally made that could capture them. Doubt any of mine have ever seen a 4473 due to their age.

Enjoy it. See if it runs. Unless someone can show me otherwise last I remember is open bolt is OK up to a certain manufacturing date. Anything made after that date is considered a MG. Same arbitrary BS as what makes a MG legal to own or not for the general public.

If it’s made before 82 it’s fine, and all of the RPBs Open bolt semis were. Perfectly legal, nothing is gonna happen if you keep it, bring it to the range, sell it, etc.. You will catch more shit for your open bolt semi auto from gunshop fudds than you ever will from any law enforcement agency.

 

[Deerhurst]

If it’s made before 82 it’s fine, and all of the RPBs Open bolt semis were. Perfectly legal, nothing is gonna happen if you keep it, bring it to the range, sell it, etc.. You will catch more shit for your open bolt semi auto from gunshop fudds than you ever will from any law enforcement agency.

I enjoy messing with the fudds. Vepr 12 for 5 stand, 410 saiga on shotgun day for 2 gun because it's almost identical to an AK74 (even uses the same furniture), open bolt 22s for 22LR shoots, used a belt fed during a 2 gun match, and I have a couple PM-63s to build to mess with the fudds with. I plan to use them as my PCC for defensive pistol in town. I'll have my rifle in a holster on my hip.

 

[LotsaTiques]

I have 2 open bolt rifles, pre '82. A fox carbine and a Demro Tac1(Sten mags). 100% legal as was already stated. Very cool rifles and both with their original combination locks. One with her original suitcase and all the directions.

David

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

 

[BobinColo]

Hi Guys,

I just joined up because I was bequeathed a 1981 RPB M10 9mm SAP. It is hardly used and has two magazines, but no other accessories. I've got lots of other firearms and have been shooting my whole life. I'm trying to decide if I should keep this for the novelty and historic value to shoot occasionally, or sell it to fund some other items that I have been eyeing. Another thought is what is the process to legally convert this to FA? What appears to be rust or corrosion in the photo is just the deteriorating foam from being stored for years and years. It was still quite well coated in oil with hardly any visible wear or damage. I don't have a better pic to share right now. Serial Number 81-000xxxx. Any opinions on how much I might start trying to sell it or for or reasons to keep it would really be appreciated. Thanks in advance and best regards.

Thanks, guys. All good info. While I may shoot just a few times, I will probably be selling it in the near future. I have a few other items on my actual wish list. It is a groovy piece of history tho