I figured I'd post this question here so it would not be so bias like many other sites. Ask this question on Ar15.com and of course you get most guys saying a AR15, post it on perfect.union they say a mini 14. Ak47.net...ect. Please don't tell me a .308M1a or some 7.62 AK. I strictly narrowed this qeustion to .223 so that eliminates most of the arguements about AK's and full bore battle rifles. I rate these things most important reliability and sheer toughness, accuracy, ergonomics weight and balance. I am not against an AK such as valmet or others as long as its in .223. Oh as for needs, lets say any enviroment in the U.S. and ranges from CQB to 400 yards. So I guess 2.5 moa or better with about 14-18" barrel.
What do you think is the best combat rifle in .223?
- Thread starter dchi
- Start date
I've tried a full auto FNC and didn't like it. It didn't cycle very smooth even though it did not jam. Hard to explain kinda like slight hang when bolt was traveling. It had a rough trigger too. They don't seem to be very popular in the class 3 world. I have a full auto m4, but its too expensive for rough field use. It's fairly reliable but will jam about the 3rd time out shooting if I don't clean it. If get a case stuck from either poor ammo or dirty chamber, the rifle is out of comission as it can not be cleared easily or without tools. No i was thinking of a semi auto this time. Also I get hasseled at the range as it is not class 3 friendly. Suka do you own a AUG? I'd like to know if handles and balances right. Do you get burned by the barrel if you not careful? Does the ejection port by your face bother you or does the smoke from it get into you eyes? I have not liked bullpups in the past because of these things but have never shot and AUG. Also are mag changes akward?
suka5168
UZI Talk Life Member
Yes, I own an A.U.G. (non NFA). It is a little rear heavy, but only a few inches of barrel protrudes beyond the stock. The mags insert near the chin and is still held in the shoulder whilest changing mags.
For the critiria that is stated, the AUG fits the bill. A Galil is my second choice but more for an outdoor enviroment.
For the critiria that is stated, the AUG fits the bill. A Galil is my second choice but more for an outdoor enviroment.
RuhRoRorge
Well-known member
I concur with the above posters, but would like to add in my own new favorite: I recently traded in most, (not all) of my com-bloc caliber weapons. Rising ammo costs, coupled with my own personal desire not to fund the Russian economy with Wolf ammo purchases, (no flames intended, or needed in return - it's just a personal choice), led me to trade in my Arsenal SA-M7s for it's 5.56mm cousin.
The milled arsenal SA-M7s is one of the finest AK-variants I have ever owned, (and I'm not an AK fan). The Styer forged barrel coupled with the milled receiver makes this an extremely accurate rifle. The build is nothing short of superb, (like a nice car) and is not tossed together - like so many AK variants on the market.
The trigger is sublime, shot placement is on the dime, it shoulders nicely and returns to target cleanly - shot for shot. Single shots are dead-on and rapid SA fire is accurate. Topped with my Russian PO3 5x21P - it's a wildly potent package. With the AWB gone, 30-rd mags are available from Arsenal and are robust and reliable. Plus, with the black furniture, it plain looks bad-assed...
All this for around $7-bills. You'd have much more wrapped up in a lot of AR's out there and of course say goodbye to your paychecks with an AUG/Galil/FNC.
I think you would be smart to give the Arsenal, (of Nevada) SA-M7 a look-see.
The milled arsenal SA-M7s is one of the finest AK-variants I have ever owned, (and I'm not an AK fan). The Styer forged barrel coupled with the milled receiver makes this an extremely accurate rifle. The build is nothing short of superb, (like a nice car) and is not tossed together - like so many AK variants on the market.
The trigger is sublime, shot placement is on the dime, it shoulders nicely and returns to target cleanly - shot for shot. Single shots are dead-on and rapid SA fire is accurate. Topped with my Russian PO3 5x21P - it's a wildly potent package. With the AWB gone, 30-rd mags are available from Arsenal and are robust and reliable. Plus, with the black furniture, it plain looks bad-assed...
All this for around $7-bills. You'd have much more wrapped up in a lot of AR's out there and of course say goodbye to your paychecks with an AUG/Galil/FNC.
I think you would be smart to give the Arsenal, (of Nevada) SA-M7 a look-see.
Mike85220
Well-known member
I can't believe no one said the obvious answer here::slap
The best .223 assault rifle is the Valmet.
They are completely reliable, incredibly durable, very accurate for the ranges they are intended for and have a more comfortable feel and way better overall quality than an AK. The cyclic rate is perfect and is smooth. The recoil is minimal and grouping on full auto is easy. Very solid weapons and they will last more rounds than anyone can afford to shoot through them. Very simple weapons to take apart, as they are based off of Kalashnikovs.
They also have flip up night sights which are a plus.
The best .223 assault rifle is the Valmet.
They are completely reliable, incredibly durable, very accurate for the ranges they are intended for and have a more comfortable feel and way better overall quality than an AK. The cyclic rate is perfect and is smooth. The recoil is minimal and grouping on full auto is easy. Very solid weapons and they will last more rounds than anyone can afford to shoot through them. Very simple weapons to take apart, as they are based off of Kalashnikovs.
They also have flip up night sights which are a plus.
Patrick Floyd
FFL/SOT
Valmet is a damn good rilfe.
Herr-Pear
UZI Talk Supporter
O.K. so I"m the odd one in the group. I love my Bushmaster M17S bullpup. a 20" barrel in a 30" package, very accurate and very handy. It's only fault is the aluminium forearm gets real hot in rapid fire but that is easily cured by the addition of a front pistol grip. Top with a Bushnell Holosight and a homemade raised cheek piece and it's near perfect.
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mkellett
UZI Talk Life Member
I say the Shrike is my favorite. Oh, wait a minute... That doesn't really exist.
Okay then, my choice would be the H&K 416. Uh oh, that doesn't exist either...
Hmmm, then the FNP2000, that's surely it. What's that you say? That doesn't exist either?!?!?!
Well crap, I guess it'll just have to be one of the most widely deployed, numerous and heavily adapted .223 weapons of all time... An AR-15. If I was the type of person that didn't like to clean my weapons more than once a year, then the addition of a gas-piston upper would be in order, but that's never been an issue in over 50,000 rounds of my own experience!
Okay then, my choice would be the H&K 416. Uh oh, that doesn't exist either...
Hmmm, then the FNP2000, that's surely it. What's that you say? That doesn't exist either?!?!?!
Well crap, I guess it'll just have to be one of the most widely deployed, numerous and heavily adapted .223 weapons of all time... An AR-15. If I was the type of person that didn't like to clean my weapons more than once a year, then the addition of a gas-piston upper would be in order, but that's never been an issue in over 50,000 rounds of my own experience!
...a military weapon needs to be durable, reliable under adverse conditions, easy to maintain in the field...and acurate up to engagement ranges of 400 meters...
...the ar15 type weapon was a dismal failure in vietnam and in the mid east...especially in any situation requiring extended deployment...
...the valmet...an ak...is bombproof...the finns, however, used primarily 762-39 caliber...
...the fnc and sig 550 series is considered by many to be the best assualt rifles ever produced...they are widely used by operators worldwide...including security forces, protection units ( who also favor uzies)...spec ops, special police units and several armies...they are widely used in south america, africa and europe...
...the fnc and sig 550 series follow the form and function of the ak...but with the addition of modern improvements and features...
...both the fnc and sig 550 series of weapons have undergone extensive reliability and endurance testing that can be duplicated in only the most extream natural enviroment...thes tests included both static and dynamic sand and dust trials ( in a sand chamber with blowing sand of varrious size, composition and so on...), sand drag testing, mud trials, (including total imersion in different types of wet media of varing particulate size) rain trials, high temp and low temp including wet freezing testing (known as ice trials)...these tests also included functional reliability testing of dry (unlubed) weapons...they performed exceptionally well...better than any other weapons so tested including the ak ( the ak did not do so well in the drop testing...component service life...weapon service life and accuracy to name a few...the ar types were a compleat failure)...
....as far as quality assurance testing to nato standard Al (in accordance to AQAP 1)...the excution, surface and heat treatment( conformity), heavy duty components, critical components, springs, welds and barrels and so on far exceeded the criteria...
...these tests were performed at the factory and independently verrified by end users in the netherlands, indonesia, pakistan, and most importantly the NATO testing group...just to name a few...
...the fnc and sig 550 series are, as widely produced assault rifles in various configurations, (by nato standards) realiable, durable and exceptional weapons...
...the ar15 type weapon was a dismal failure in vietnam and in the mid east...especially in any situation requiring extended deployment...
...the valmet...an ak...is bombproof...the finns, however, used primarily 762-39 caliber...
...the fnc and sig 550 series is considered by many to be the best assualt rifles ever produced...they are widely used by operators worldwide...including security forces, protection units ( who also favor uzies)...spec ops, special police units and several armies...they are widely used in south america, africa and europe...
...the fnc and sig 550 series follow the form and function of the ak...but with the addition of modern improvements and features...
...both the fnc and sig 550 series of weapons have undergone extensive reliability and endurance testing that can be duplicated in only the most extream natural enviroment...thes tests included both static and dynamic sand and dust trials ( in a sand chamber with blowing sand of varrious size, composition and so on...), sand drag testing, mud trials, (including total imersion in different types of wet media of varing particulate size) rain trials, high temp and low temp including wet freezing testing (known as ice trials)...these tests also included functional reliability testing of dry (unlubed) weapons...they performed exceptionally well...better than any other weapons so tested including the ak ( the ak did not do so well in the drop testing...component service life...weapon service life and accuracy to name a few...the ar types were a compleat failure)...
....as far as quality assurance testing to nato standard Al (in accordance to AQAP 1)...the excution, surface and heat treatment( conformity), heavy duty components, critical components, springs, welds and barrels and so on far exceeded the criteria...
...these tests were performed at the factory and independently verrified by end users in the netherlands, indonesia, pakistan, and most importantly the NATO testing group...just to name a few...
...the fnc and sig 550 series are, as widely produced assault rifles in various configurations, (by nato standards) realiable, durable and exceptional weapons...
Quarterbore
UZI Talk Life Member
I really don't know what the "best" is but I do love the AR-15 and M-16 and under most conditions it would be my choice... If I was in a messy environment (jungle) then the 223 AKs would be my choice but it would be a tough decision for me to use anything other then an AR platform.
You gain confidence with use and after thousands of rounds through the AR-15 I just love my ARs.... best.... who knows... but it is the best system I have used...
You gain confidence with use and after thousands of rounds through the AR-15 I just love my ARs.... best.... who knows... but it is the best system I have used...
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Vegas SMG
UZI Talk Life Member,
I've owned a FNC and an AUG, both full auto, and sold them both while keeping my M16. Personal preference I suppose. Both of those guns are great in their own right but for different reasons. I suppose I like the M16 platform for all it can be. Yes, I had the 9mm conversion kit for the AUG and the 24" heavy barrel and it's by far the smoothest shooting .223 caliber gun I've ever shot hands down. The bull pup design has a lot to offer in a very compact package but didn't turn me on at ALL. Board member Mike Duke now owns both guns and loves them. I'm happy they stayed in town with my friend.
Still the AR/M16 has so many caliber conversions available, so many accessories, so many easily swap-able uppers, and so many readily available replacement parts that it's a winner by default IMHO. The gas system has long been it's biggest downfall and the new gas piston uppers put it on par with the best guns out there. YMMV
Still the AR/M16 has so many caliber conversions available, so many accessories, so many easily swap-able uppers, and so many readily available replacement parts that it's a winner by default IMHO. The gas system has long been it's biggest downfall and the new gas piston uppers put it on par with the best guns out there. YMMV
...WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST COMBAT RIFLE IN 223...
.......this was the question...the ar15 types have many caliber conversions, accessories, avaiable replacement parts and so on...it is a very flexable platform...especially here is america where it is very popular...it is, however, not as realiable in the field as some of the others partially due to the gas system, multi lugged bolt( gas rings and all) and carrier design...it has an aluminum upper and sometimes requires the use of a foward assist to lock up when fouled...is can be disabled easily by a blown primer, sand, excessive fouling, even bits of brass...or firing residue mixed with lube...it generally needs maintence(cleaning) after several hundred rounds or it will become even more unrealiable in hostile enviroments...the fnc and sig series can go thousands of rounds if necessary and will still meet set military paramaters of mean rounds fired before failure...the ar15 types are adequate police weapons or range weapons for civilians who are able to maintain and repair on a as needed basis...soldiers in the field do not have this option...especially on extended deployments... this has always been the chief complaint from soldiers in the field...realiability of the weapon...in vietnam...and now from those serving in the mid east...
.......this was the question...the ar15 types have many caliber conversions, accessories, avaiable replacement parts and so on...it is a very flexable platform...especially here is america where it is very popular...it is, however, not as realiable in the field as some of the others partially due to the gas system, multi lugged bolt( gas rings and all) and carrier design...it has an aluminum upper and sometimes requires the use of a foward assist to lock up when fouled...is can be disabled easily by a blown primer, sand, excessive fouling, even bits of brass...or firing residue mixed with lube...it generally needs maintence(cleaning) after several hundred rounds or it will become even more unrealiable in hostile enviroments...the fnc and sig series can go thousands of rounds if necessary and will still meet set military paramaters of mean rounds fired before failure...the ar15 types are adequate police weapons or range weapons for civilians who are able to maintain and repair on a as needed basis...soldiers in the field do not have this option...especially on extended deployments... this has always been the chief complaint from soldiers in the field...realiability of the weapon...in vietnam...and now from those serving in the mid east...
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