Velocity VMAC-45 jamming with hollow points

[Slowmo]

Maybe next time when you’re replacing your carry ammo, you could try it.

And as you said, there should be no feeding difference between closed and open bolt MACs, right? I ask because I remember hearing someone else say otherwise but there was never any elaboration nor was he clearly an expert.

I don’t ever carry my .45s, so no carry ammo to speak of.

I have never seen a semi-auto M10 up close, so I don’t know about feeding differences. In at least some guns like an Uzi, the bolt face is shaped differently between semi and FA bolts because of the fixed firing pin. The FA bolt has a little shelf to keep the primer off the firing pin as the case head rides up the bolt face so that the primer can only contact the firing pin once the round is in the chamber far enough to align it. If there are differences in the bolt face geometry, it might change the feeding mechanics for the M10.

 

[gameragodzilla]

I don’t ever carry my .45s, so no carry ammo to speak of.

I have never seen a semi-auto M10 up close, so I don’t know about feeding differences. In at least some guns like an Uzi, the bolt face is shaped differently between semi and FA bolts because of the fixed firing pin. The FA bolt has a little shelf to keep the primer off the firing pin as the case head rides up the bolt face so that the primer can only contact the firing pin once the round is in the chamber far enough to align it. If there are differences in the bolt face geometry, it might change the feeding mechanics for the M10.

Gotcha. Well I never fired a full auto or open bolt MAC before so I can’t compare.

Still, I suppose more info is available on the full auto guns than the semi auto closed bolt clones, so I guess I’ll have to keep asking around for someone who has one and has fired hollow points through it.

 

[Deerhurst]

I not believe there should be much difference between SA and FA macs with how they feed. At the same time Ive never actually handled a SA MAC.

The biggest difference should be in the bolt and FCG.

 

[gameragodzilla]

I not believe there should be much difference between SA and FA macs with how they feed. At the same time Ive never actually handled a SA MAC.

The biggest difference should be in the bolt and FCG.

Gotcha. I did wonder how the closed bolt and open bolt MACs would differ, which matters more than just SA and FA, I figure. A semi auto open bolt MAC like the old ones before the ATF banned them would feed the same as a machine gun MAC, right?

 

[Slowmo]

Gotcha. I did wonder how the closed bolt and open bolt MACs would differ, which matters more than just SA and FA, I figure. A semi auto open bolt MAC like the old ones before the ATF banned them would feed the same as a machine gun MAC, right?

I think that is probably true of the open bolt semis, but not 100% sure. Theoretically they could use a fixed firing pin whereas a closed bolt semi could not.

 

[gameragodzilla]

I think that is probably true of the open bolt semis, but not 100% sure. Theoretically they could use a fixed firing pin whereas a closed bolt semi could not.

Yeah, that I definitely saw since the VMAC-45 is a closed bolt gun and therefore uses a hammer to hit the firing pin. Wonder if the trigger slap issue is also related to the hammer needing to be cocked when it was just an open bolt sear before. Though I didn’t notice any trigger slap when I fired the gun so seems like the issue isn’t there anymore.

 

[strobro32]

The feed ramp on SMG and SA M10 and M11 style guns is part of the trigger guard. They can be adjusted by bending the ramp up or down with a crescent wrench. People ask all the time if a new or used MAC should be bought. I like used guns because usually the kinks have been worked out by a previous owner, but not always.

Most bullet feed issues come down to mag position, feed lip position or how the barrel/chamber is cut. The bullet profile can make a big difference.
There are Bazillons different bullet profiles that can affect chambering. If you are into reloading or bullet casting, you are probably aware.
The general consensus is find an ammo each gun likes with and buy a lot of it.

My opinion is "MAC" type guns are toys. I don't think I would want my life to depend on ammo type. If bullet profile was a consideration on my life, I would pick a different gun.

 

[gameragodzilla]

The feed ramp on SMG and SA M10 and M11 style guns is part of the trigger guard. They can be adjusted by bending the ramp up or down with a crescent wrench. People ask all the time if a new or used MAC should be bought. I like used guns because usually the kinks have been worked out by a previous owner, but not always.

Most bullet feed issues come down to mag position, feed lip position or how the barrel/chamber is cut. The bullet profile can make a big difference.
There are Bazillons different bullet profiles that can affect chambering. If you are into reloading or bullet casting, you are probably aware.
The general consensus is find an ammo each gun likes with and buy a lot of it.

My opinion is "MAC" type guns are toys. I don't think I would want my life to depend on ammo type. If bullet profile was a consideration on my life, I would pick a different gun.

Fair point on the last part, but if I’m able to get the gun reliable with the ammo I plan on using with it, I’m okay with trusting my life to it as I will just stick to that loading. That’s what I did with my custom built 1911 and it works great.

And huh, didn’t know the feed ramp was actually part of the trigger guard. Clever manufacturing trick there. I did also think about getting a used MAC clone but all of them were actually more expensive than the VMAC-45, so since it was cheap, might as well get it and also get a new gun. The cost also leaves funds left over for tweaking and ironing out the kinks.

 

[GunsCarsPlanes]

......yeah thats the reason i don't shoot select fire w/JHP, not because I can't afford to fill a dozen 72 round drums.

 

[gameragodzilla]

......yeah thats the reason i don't shoot select fire w/JHP, not because I can't afford to fill a dozen 72 round drums.

I’d be okay if just one or two magazines worth of hollow points ran fine. lol

Luckily, Velocity got my gun and a case of 500 rounds I ordered for them today. They said they’re busy so might not have time to look at my gun for a couple days, but I’m okay with waiting as long as they get it working.

 

[GunsCarsPlanes]

That's pretty nice of them.

 

[gameragodzilla]

That's pretty nice of them.

Yup, so hopefully they’re able to get something. I figure manufacturer with 500 rounds of ammo should be enough to get it working.

However, that does assume it is even possible, hence why I also started this thread.

 

[saferunner]

This might help!!!

Ensure that the gun is properly cleaned, lubricated, and that there are no burrs or sharp edges on the feed ramp or chamber.

Check that the magazines are in good condition, with no dents or damage to the feed lips or follower.

Consider using different hollow point ammo brands, as some MAC-10s can be picky with certain bullet profiles. You might find better results with a different ammo brand or design.

Look for aftermarket solutions designed to improve the reliability of MAC-10s, such as magazine upgrades or feed ramp modifications.

Consult with a MAC-10 specialist or an experienced gunsmith who has worked on these firearms before to help diagnose and fix the issue. They may have additional insights or solutions specific to your situation.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

The Ingram feedramp is not suited to running HP ammo, though some have had varying degrees of success running HPs, it’s generally not recommended to run HPs through these guns. The original MAC company out of Powder Springs GA discouraged the use of anything besides FMJ ammo in the Ingram guns. The newer velocity clone has the same feedramp as the original MAC SMG and is just as unsuitable for anything besides FMJ as far as I know.

 

[gameragodzilla]

Extremely long time since my last post due to the guy at Velocity being busy himself, but he said he’s finally gotten it working (albeit testing just one mag so far) and will be sending back my gun, mags, and ammo soon. Fingers crossed that all the other mags work equally well (or at least a few mags to dedicate for defensive use, he couldn’t test all 11 due to time constraints) and I’ll be testing them when I finally get them.

In the meantime, if these rounds don’t work, are there any .45ACP hollow points that feed like FMJ ball? Or are there any FMJ loads that are more defensive oriented like those LeHigh rounds that’ll feed reliably? Just as a plan B in case it turns out to truly be hopeless.

 

[shiklg]

honestly a 45 FMJ is more than enough - 45 HP tend to lack in penetration, especially when shooting thru a window or at someone wearing heavy winter clothes or leather. Personally I would just use 45 FMJ and have confidence that it is going to cycle. I have personal experience shooting someone with a 45 HP, BTW. Now I carry a 9mm.

 

[gameragodzilla]

honestly a 45 FMJ is more than enough - 45 HP tend to lack in penetration, especially when shooting thru a window or at someone wearing heavy winter clothes or leather. Personally I would just use 45 FMJ and have confidence that it is going to cycle. I have personal experience shooting someone with a 45 HP, BTW. Now I carry a 9mm.

Yeah but modern hollow points do penetrate and expand. At least my rounds do (Winchester Ranger T). Definitely spent the big bux to get my hands on a lot of it.

Any FMJ loads you’d recommend if I can’t get it running with these hollow points?

 

[shiklg]

Yeah but modern hollow points do penetrate and expand. At least my rounds do (Winchester Ranger T). Definitely spent the big bux to get my hands on a lot of it.

Any FMJ loads you’d recommend if I can’t get it running with these hollow points?

Frankly any high-quality brass case manufactured FMJ will do (not reloads).

The ammo in my experience (shooting) was Federal Hydra-Shok 230 grain HP. At the time it was considered the best. After numerous issues with it not expanding/penetrating, the department switched to the 180 grain. Then a couple years later switched from 45 to 9mm. This was a very large midwestern police department.

 

[Slowmo]

Frankly any high-quality brass case manufactured FMJ will do (not reloads).

The ammo in my experience (shooting) was Federal Hydra-Shok 230 grain HP. At the time it was considered the best. After numerous issues with it not expanding/penetrating, the department switched to the 180 grain. Then a couple years later switched from 45 to 9mm. This was a very large midwestern police department.

I’d still rather have a 9mm than a .45 for defense, but hollow points have come a long way since the Hydra-Shok.

That’s partly why the LE groupthink came full circle on the 9mm. The FBI led the charge to abandon the 9mm for allegedly inadequate penetration of 9mm hollow points in the 1986 Miami shootout, which ultimately led to the 10mm and later .40 S&W. About 10 years ago, it was the FBI who penned a memo on why it was abandoning .40 to go back to 9mm. One of those reasons was that “[c]ontemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles.”

 

[gameragodzilla]

I’d still rather have a 9mm than a .45 for defense, but hollow points have come a long way since the Hydra-Shok.

That’s partly why the LE groupthink came full circle on the 9mm. The FBI led the charge to abandon the 9mm for allegedly inadequate penetration of 9mm hollow points in the 1986 Miami shootout, which ultimately led to the 10mm and later .40 S&W. About 10 years ago, it was the FBI who penned a memo on why it was abandoning .40 to go back to 9mm. One of those reasons was that “[c]ontemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles.”

I prefer .45ACP precisely because it expands most out of all the common pistol calibers and modern versions meet FBI penetration standards. Then again, .45 FMJ is still pretty wide but the problem with 9mm before was either insufficient penetration or insufficient wound size, while modern 9mm can do both. My logic, though, is the same tech that advanced 9mm also advanced .45 and .45ACP already starts out wider. Winchester Ranger T expands to a full 1”, which is why I use it as my Para Ordnance 1911 carry load. But if it doesn’t work with a MAC, then I’ll want some other kind of defensive oriented load.