Uzi Rail System

[amphibian]

I've been thinking about doing a rail system for the Uzi.
I was going to make one last year but then GGG was coming out with one so I held off. Now I hear some people complain about theirs so I'm thinking about doing my own design again.
I'm looking at the full size and think I will have to make the left side shorter because of the sling. This won't be a problem with the MINI.
The rail system will replace the factory grip panels and make NO modifications to the gun.
What do you guy's think? Do you think I should bother?

 

[Z06]

amphibian,
If you have a good idea, AND the means to prototype it, I think you should go ahead. While GG&G is a great outfit, I was less than impressed with their UZI "rail". That wasn't what I consider a rail, when compared with R.I.S. and R.A.S. units. I have ideas, but Play-Doh® does NOT make a good prototype! -Z06:uzi

 

[osprey21]

Sounds interesting to me, Keep us posted.

 

[Clever]

I have the GG&G rail, and am mostly satisfied with it, but it is a tiny bit wobbly. I'd be interested in a rail system.

 

[amphibian]

Thanks for the responses so far.
I know exactly how I want it to go together and I do have the resources to put it together.
Now it is just a matter of gathering the materials and the time to do it. The expensive part is getting the picatinny rail blanks.
I'm thinking I may do the MINI first since it will require less rail material then do the full size Uzi later depending on how I like it and the feedback I get.

 

[Clever]

The rail mounts under the front handguard. Sort of pointless to mount a sighting device under there. I have a GG&G pistol grip mounted. The problem is that the rail only mounts to the bayo lug on the front. The tighter it's screwed in, the front gets snugged down closer to the handguard and the rear of the rail doesn't, so the rail is at a weird angle.

 

[mac]

VERY happy I saw this thread!!!

Amp.... Most of us here(I reckon) would RATHER see you develop a rail for the FULL size FIRST!!!!! hint hint.....


Ill throw ya $50-$100 for starters with a deal at the end of the line and possible mods in the future!!!

I was considering the Tri-G rail in the "VERTICAL GRIP" thread till I saw this thread!!!

 

[amphibian]

Well, someone asked about a rail on subguns so I mentioned that I would be doing a rail SYSTEM there and told people to please email me if interested. So, I'll do the same here. If you're interested please send me an email so I can keep you guys informed and let you guys have first dibs when I release them. Also let me know your "UziTalk" name for reference.
Thanks!
Mac,
Ok, OK, it sounds like the full size Uzi is used the most so I'll do it at the same time instead of making the MINI the priority.
See what you made me do!!! I only had enough rail material for the MINI and now I have to order more for the Full Size damnit!!!
Also if anyone knows a source for the Picatinny rail stock that will help as it is expensive and the cheaper I can get the stock the better for everyone.
Thanks!!

 

[dustindu4]

Also if anyone knows a source for the Picatinny rail stock that will help as it is expensive and the cheaper I can get the stock the better for everyone.
Thanks!!

If you go to Brownells.com and register as a non-FFL gun accessories dealer, which you technically are (I'm not though but they think I am :wink ) you can buy it for 44.34 for 12" as opposed to 56.42 like everyone else.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1651

more here

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=8804

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=6002

 

[amphibian]

Thanks, but I already knew about that source. I should have mentioned that.
I was hoping for another source as well. It never hurts to know more sources for this stuff.
Thanks!

 

[amphibian]

Rail System Update

I have completed the prototype for a Rail System for the Full size and it came out just as I thought it would - very nice. It is still unfinished though.
I want to sandblast it and molycoat it before putting any pictures up.
It is currently made from Stainless steel and uses aluminum picatinny rails.
There are some issues that came about that I did not anticipate though. It turns out that my IMI (Model B conversion) has some dimensional differences to the Vector.
1. I was also using the front part of a demilled OLD hebrew Uzi to take some measurements from and some things are different on that too. That one has a square lug area where the rear grip screw goes through while the "newer" IMI's and Vectors are round. The widths are about the same though.
2. I noticed that the IMI's I have looked at have a "flat" area between the bayonet lug and the rear grip lug while the Group/Vector guns are round.
3. The fact that the Vector MINI's are chopped full size Group receivers compounds the problem for making them for the Vector MINI's and Ralph had also told me about some varying differences on how the MINI's were made that I won't bother discuss in this thread.
4. The one Vector that I had access to seems to not have the bayonet lug parallel with the receiver. With the rail mounted, it goes off at a weird angle and when mounted to my IMI it is parallel. I read somewhere that somebody had used the GGG rail and it did the same thing on their Vector.

My end prototype took a lot longer than I thought to make. It is VERY solid though. There is absolutely no slop.
Right now it is mounting in the front by enaging the bayonet lug and uses the rear grip lug screw hole.
I currently have Knight's rails on both sides and the Knight's vertical grip on the bottom. I only have two Knights rail covers and put some of the cheaper olympic ones on the bottom to see how it looks. With rails on all 3 sides, it is "circular" just like a rail equipped AR/M16 but it has a slightly smaller outer diameter which is nice.
So in conclusion, I have to rethink the mounting method for one that relies on the two grip mounting holes and will be more universal for both Vector's and IMI's and still be solid.

 

[amphibian]

Pics, Pics, Pics, Pics!!!
Ok, your wish is my command.
My ISP is having issues so hopefully you can get to my website.
These are some pics of my prototype...
Let me know what you think.
http://www.c3junkie.com
Click on the Custom Uzi Parts link and then Rail Systems for more info and pics.

 

[montana_jeepn]

Awesome!

amphibian,

Looks awesome! I want one for my Vector. What are you going to be selling them for? Thanks!

M_J

 

[dustindu4]

Maybe this has already been covered and I'm too lazy to look, but are you mounting those on new handguards or used or ones that people send in?

 

[asintaderoche]

that's great amphibian...... congrats, so when are you going to put that thing commercially... i'll buy one....

 

[amphibian]

Well here's the deal...
I think it takes too much time to make these and I don't think people would be willing to pay for it.
I think most people want to pay like $50 (I don't make Picatinny Rails and they are not cheap). My materials alone cost more than $50. I'm using up about 12" of rail for each Rail System. I'm thinking it would be at LEAST $250 maybe $260 delivered to do it IN QUANTITY. I would not even consider doing just 1 or 2.
To really ramp up to do these, we would have to make a jig of some sorts. That takes time and money too. Someone with access to better resources than I could maybe make these into a casting which would most likely be a lot cheaper.
I did my Docter Optics ready topcovers and they sell but not as good as I thought they would. I pay $50 for the NEW ratcheting topcovers.
Then include shipping for $180 delivered. Minus say $10 shipping. That's $120 to get a certified welder to weld the thing, make the mount on a Mill, drill/Tap, sandblast and parkerize. I don't know about you but $120 to do all that is DAMN CHEAP. That all takes equipment and TIME. The sandblasting is the most annoying and time consuming as that New IMI finish is tough to get off.
Now regarding the rails. The trick of course is how to mount the rails to the bayonet lug and still make it solid. Because of the dimensional differences between Vector and IMI's, I plan on relying on just the grip screw holes. My first prototype was made from aluminum which is very solid and nice but it doesn't fit my friend's Vector. To make it work for both, I plan on using a STEEL bottom rail and aluminum side rails.
There is a LOT of mill work involved. Milling of aluminum, steel and stainless steel. This is not something you can just whip up with a Dremel.
Then since they will all be machined and down to bare metal, I would sandblast and molycoat all of them.
I think I may sell some of the rails but I really don't know how much people are willing to pay. As of right now, I'm not too skeptical about the market for them.
What do you guys think?
Thanks...

 

[montana_jeepn]

Rails

I really do not think $250-260 is at all out of line. I mean a Knight's RAS is $300+ for my AR-15. So I think you are definitely in the Ballpark. I think its an outstanding setup!

 

[Clever]

If you had one for sale, I'd send you $250 for it right now....

 

[amphibian]

Bad news, I miscalculated the amount of rail that I will need for each gun in my mind. Here are the actual specs:

Left rail: 3.5" long
Right rail: 4.5" long
Bottom rail: 4.5" long

I was thinking that I could use one 12" rail per gun. That is out the window. Also since we are talking about cutting up a picatinny rail, it is inevitable that you will be wasting material everytime you cut it because of the "sections".
What further complicates this is that for increased strength, I plan on using steel for the bottom rail and aluminum for the sides.
So now I'm thinking it would be like $280 delivered. I just ordered a steel rail yesterday and should have it next week to play with. It looks like I'll be making another prototype but this time I'm going to try to make sure it is a snug fit for both IMI and Vector.
Once I am done, I will contact the manufacturers of both the aluminum and steel picatinny rails to see if I can get a break on the pricing so it may actually go down...
I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[newtoma]

Let me know when/if you start production, I will buy one. Vector full-size.

Mark Newton