The New FNC

[AGG]

Travis,

Thanks for the heads up--- received your PM--- PM'ed you back!!!
They can install a registered sear in it and make a "post-sample" MG--- I would definitely want BATFE clarification, in writing, on this topic.

Tony

 

[Travarmy]

Good morning guys,

I never thought I would get this type of response in such a short time.

I understand completely about needing a copy of the letter. As we know the ATF will say Yes today and No tomorrow.

I'm not affiliated with nor work for Wade at Fleming Firearms. I did email him this morning asking for a copy of or some type of ATF approval.

I just wanted to make sure this got out to the SMALL FNC community.

Travis

 

[okpud]

Good morning guys,

I never thought I would get this type of response in such a short time.

I understand completely about needing a copy of the letter. As we know the ATF will say Yes today and No tomorrow.

I'm not affiliated with nor work for Wade at Fleming Firearms. I did email him this morning asking for a copy of or some type of ATF approval.

I just wanted to make sure this got out to the SMALL FNC community.

Travis

I think you find the skepticism comes from two past activities which are documented in this forum:

1) Letter written to the ATF about allowing the S&H sear to be installed into a AR-15 type rifle for title II conversion. ATF denied the permission stating that S&H sears could only be installed in FNC Type rifles.

2) Same request was made for the FN SCAR, which seems to share multiple similarities with the FNC's fire control group. Also denied.

In both cases, the ATF determined that installing a S&H sear would be the creation of a post-sample machinegun.

I think everyone wants the new Fleming FNC to be able to legally take a S&H sear and keep its transferable status, we're just a bit wary based on past history.

 

[Travarmy]

okpud,

I agree 100%. I have a new sear just sitting in the safe collecting dust. It would be GREAT to have what looks to be an AR platform to put it in.

Travis

 

[bac0nfat]

Both the SCAR and an AR15 require modification while this one is supposedly drop-in. That's a big difference legally. It's basically an FNC clone that just looks different.

 

[okpud]

Both the SCAR and an AR15 require modification while this one is supposedly drop-in. That's a big difference legally. It's basically an FNC clone that just looks different.

My concern is over ATF ruling 2008-1 (posted earlier). In short, if it is similar to the FNC, it can't be called a FNC. Also, if it is not a FNC type rifle, you can't install a S&H FNC sear into it w/o creating a post-sample.

Basically, if they can legally name it "FNC", then they are also stating it is not similar to the FN FNC which, by definition, would preclude a S&H sear from being installed in it w/o creating a post-sample.

Believe me, I want to be wrong on this, which is why I'd love to see some more info from Fleming.

 

[DOHCTR]

Both the SCAR and an AR15 require modification while this one is supposedly drop-in. That's a big difference legally. It's basically an FNC clone that just looks different.

The FNC requires a lot of modification as well, including milling, welding the carrier, notching the selector and hammer, drilling the sear pin hole, etc.

If you look at a scar, it actually requires less modification as the sear relief is already cut into the lower and the pin is already there.

 

[JoshNC]

I'll believe it when I see a ATF approval letter, You think they will let them install FNC sear in this and not in a scar, I don't think so

Exactly. How could an FNC sear be allowed in this and not the SCAR?

 

[aramsogo]

The pins for the FCG are in the exact same place as an AR15, how could it possibly work with an FNC sear? This looks like nothing more than an AR platform rifle. The thing that's weird is how the upper is the "firearm," and it's called an FNC. Seems pretty coincidental.

They make a drop-in select fire conversion kit for electric airsoft M4s to turn them into gas blowback mechanical M4s. Since space is a premium in the drop-in kit, they moved the autosear to the front like an AK. I haven't seen the internals of this New FNC, but I would imagine it would look something similar to the airsoft drop-in (that's select fire safe-semi-full and has pins in the same location). Probably the New FNC will just be safe and full auto like a lightning link, but that's good enough for me.

 

[mace2364]

I went to that link but I can't find anything related to an FNC. I see lots of HK type stuff, but nothing FNC related. Did something ever come of this?

 

[fishtix]

I went to that link but I can't find anything related to an FNC. I see lots of HK type stuff, but nothing FNC related. Did something ever come of this?

I think they pulled it off their site.

 

[rhouston8]

you are not being trolled by travarmy

I think we are being trolled:

http://www.dfwmustangs.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1217959#post1217959

Same OP, almost word for word. No source cited.

Thats not the same person on the other post. The words are the same, the poster different.

I have know Travarmy for years. He's standup.
He just got back from SAR west as well and was hanging around a lot of people in the know concerning this topic.

-Houston

 

[Travarmy]

I went to that link but I can't find anything related to an FNC. I see lots of HK type stuff, but nothing FNC related. Did something ever come of this?

It looks like they pulled the pic and info from the site.

 

[XxLT250RxX]

There is no approval letter yet and IMHO there probably won't be. I received this from them yesterday.



From: "Wade H. Fleming" <orders@flemingfirearms.com>
Date: December 16, 2013 at 1:12:20 PM CST
To:
Subject: RE: Fleming Nato Carbine
Reply-To: "Wade H. Fleming" <orders@flemingfirearms.com>


We designed our FNC rifle to except the S&H FNC sear. The paperwork from the ATF is still pending but on approval we will be charging $500 to install the sear.


"Happiness is a Warm Machine Gun"


-------- Original message --------
From:
Date: 12/15/2013 5:26 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: orders@flemingfirearms.com
Subject: Fleming Nato Carbine

I just saw your website and am interested in the Fleming Nato Carbine.

Is it possible to install a registered FNC sear?

If so do you offer this service?

How much to install sear?

Also do you have a BATF approval letter and can you provide me with a copy?
________________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6915 - Release Date: 12/12/13

 

[bac0nfat]

Then why did the OP say "ATF approved?"

 

[XxLT250RxX]

Then why did the OP say "ATF approved?"

I would like to know that as well :thinking

 

[okpud]

I think the term "approved" was made in error. I believe the intent was to state that the Fleming Nato Carbine design was classified as a title I firearm by the ATF and that the upper was classified as the critical part bearing the serial number. Some people probably jumped to the conclusion that this meant you could install a S&H sear into it without turning it into a post-sample.

I, for one, wish them the best of luck and will be one of the first people in line to buy one if they do get an approval letter from the technology branch. Based on past experience, though, I think it may be a longshot.

 

[bac0nfat]

I think the term "approved" was made in error. I believe the intent was to state that the Fleming Nato Carbine design was classified as a title I firearm by the ATF and that the upper was classified as the critical part bearing the serial number. Some people probably jumped to the conclusion that this meant you could install a S&H sear into it without turning it into a post-sample.

I, for one, wish them the best of luck and will be one of the first people in line to buy one if they do get an approval letter from the technology branch. Based on past experience, though, I think it may be a longshot.

The bold part is what gets people in trouble. In that case it's usually a good idea to start with a qualifier such as "probably," or "I believe," or "maybe," or "I'm not sure, but..."

 

[JoshNC]

I think this is potentially fraught with peril re: M16s. Setting a new precedent where the UPPER is the firearm in the AR15/M16 series could be very bad.

The Law of Unintended Conequences could very well apply to the Fleming New Carbine's affect on the Stoner family.

I think the term "approved" was made in error. I believe the intent was to state that the Fleming Nato Carbine design was classified as a title I firearm by the ATF and that the upper was classified as the critical part bearing the serial number. Some people probably jumped to the conclusion that this meant you could install a S&H sear into it without turning it into a post-sample.

I, for one, wish them the best of luck and will be one of the first people in line to buy one if they do get an approval letter from the technology branch. Based on past experience, though, I think it may be a longshot.

 

[Kramer]

Some people probably jumped to the conclusion that this meant you could install a S&H sear into it without turning it into a post-sample.

The way that it was worded in the advertisement it sounded like it was a FNC clone, plus the lower looked like a copy of a FNC lower. So it really was not a jump to conclusion issue.