Shockwave Z-mags in STEn?

[StenAtopia]

Awesome!!!
This is all I need, another project!
I can’t wait to try this. I’ve got a lot of things I’m currently working on but I’ve always wanted to use glock mags with a Sten.

Thanks for posting.

I still think you’re gonna have ejection problems. Glock mags are even smaller. Hence butting it up close to the ejector will make it an even longer push to the chamber vs Sten or SW mags? I think the ejector is going to have to be moved or adding material to it. Imho.

 

[StenAtopia]

So I knew I couldn't possibly be the first guy to think of using single-feed Glock mags in STENs, and that SOMEBODY must have played around with the idea already. So I did a little bit of Google sleuthing on the interwebs and came up with a CAD file some dude worked up back in 2019 for a 3D printed replacement magazine housing for the STEN utilizing Glock mags. That file can be found HERE.

I don't know how resilient it would be in plastic, although that would be a cheap way to try it out as a proof of concept, perhaps tweaking it here and there to improve upon it before moving on to having it made via metal additive manufacturing techniques (aka 3D metal printing). View attachment 39339View attachment 39340View attachment 39341

Anyone willing to print this for me. I will pay what needs be?

 

[StenAtopia]

Getting closer. Need to do a bunch of clean up. Welding. Then figure out someway to make the ejector longer without cutting it out and repositioning it.

 

[skoda]

I'm back and took some pictures of what I am using. Like I said, it's a range toy system not a combat system but it does work and works quite well.

The lever has the end cut to fit into little recess of the magazine. This not only keeps the magazine in place but also at the right position for the feed lips to work with the bolt. There is a spacer that fits in the rear of the mag well which serves to fill the 1/4 inch of extra space and positions the pivot point for the latching lever. The screw that holds the plate in position acts to hold the coil spring. It's simple and works well though I don't like the ergonomics of the lever. I'm thinking of bending it on the thumb end but there isn't a lot of room in that area.

 

[skoda]

Getting closer. Need to do a bunch of clean up. Welding. Then figure out someway to make the ejector longer without cutting it out and repositioning it. View attachment 39350

Looks like a good solution. Why do you need to make the ejector longer?

 

[StenAtopia]

Looks like a good solution. Why do you need to make the ejector longer?

I haven’t got my Sten yet. Few weeks. When I ran the idea by some “Sten People” of using shockwave mags in a Sten I was told since the mag is being pushed more forward that it will be further from the ejector. Hence moving the ejector more forward? Idk?

 

[atfsux]

In my opinion (which could easily be wrong), as long as the extractor spring is sufficiently strong to keep the spent case firmly in place on the bolt face as the bolt races rearward, the existing ejector should work just as well as originally. If, however, the case is sort of wobbly unsecure as it exits the chamber and could fall out of place,...then it would seem that having the ejector moved further forward to impact the case head sooner before it can wander elsewhere might make sense. But truly, I just don't see that.

 

[skoda]

Nah, the two are independent. The magazine feeds the round into the gun, the ejector kicks it out. If you are worried about the 'second' round in the magazine pushing on the spent case of the 'first' round while it is still being held on the bolt face by the extractor think about it that the 'second' round will just be pushing on the spent case in the same direction that the ejector is trying to push it. Besides it all happens in milliseconds so the second round probably won't move into the feed position of the magazine in time to push on the first round case. I don't have any issue with my adaptor that moves the magazine a quarter inch forward.

 

[DINK]

You have to remember that in a blowback-operated firearm like the Sten, the extractor isn't pulling the casing out of the chamber, the casing is driving the bolt to the rear. The casing WILL be firmly held in the bolt face even if the extractor isn't installed. The extractor only provides a pivot point for the casing to rotate around so it gets thrown out of the ejection port. The position of the magazine is irrelevant during this process and the gun will eject just fine even if there is no magazine in it.

 

[StenAtopia]

You have to remember that in a blowback-operated firearm like the Sten, the extractor isn't pulling the casing out of the chamber, the casing is driving the bolt to the rear. The casing WILL be firmly held in the bolt face even if the extractor isn't installed. The extractor only provides a pivot point for the casing to rotate around so it gets thrown out of the ejection port. The position of the magazine is irrelevant during this process and the gun will eject just fine even if there is no magazine in it.

i guess my questioning about ejectors and positioning comes from this thread I found.

Is my Sten ejector too far back?

Finally got around to trying to the kinks out of my Neal Smith Sten Mk II tube gun. I get 1 or 2 failures to eject per magazine, I notice if I push forward on the magazine I get 1 failure every couple of magazines. I replaced the extractor and extractor spring and there was no change. I shot some...

www.machinegunboards.com

 

[DINK]

The location of the ejector in the Sten is important, but in relation to the ejection port, not the magazine. Way back when DLO was starting out building Stens, there were several he put together with the ejector welded in too far to the rear. My buddy Carl Silver wrote an article for the long-defunct Machine Gun News describing how to relocate the ejector for proper functioning. Just like the Sten in the thread you reference, if the ejector is too far back, the empty casing can hit the edge of the ejection port and get bounced back into the action. Moving it forward cures the problem. If your Sten ejects properly with the original magazine well in place, moving the location of the magazine slightly should not cause any problems.

 

[atfsux]

The location of the ejector in the Sten is important, but in relation to the ejection port, not the magazine. Way back when DLO was starting out building Stens, there were several he put together with the ejector welded in too far to the rear. My buddy Carl Silver wrote an article for the long-defunct Machine Gun News describing how to relocate the ejector for proper functioning. Just like the Sten in the thread you reference, if the ejector is too far back, the empty casing can hit the edge of the ejection port and get bounced back into the action. Moving it forward cures the problem. If your Sten ejects properly with the original magazine well in place, moving the location of the magazine slightly should not cause any problems.

Yes,...this is essentially what I was trying to communicate, but Dink did so much better.

 

[CKxx]

So I knew I couldn't possibly be the first guy to think of using single-feed Glock mags in STENs, and that SOMEBODY must have played around with the idea already. So I did a little bit of Google sleuthing on the interwebs and came up with a CAD file some dude worked up back in 2019 for a 3D printed replacement magazine housing for the STEN utilizing Glock mags. That file can be found HERE.

I don't know how resilient it would be in plastic, although that would be a cheap way to try it out as a proof of concept, perhaps tweaking it here and there to improve upon it before moving on to having it made via metal additive manufacturing techniques (aka 3D metal printing).

Is there any chance you could model (or already have modeled) something similar to clamp onto a standard STEN handguard and add the pic rail?

 

[StenAtopia]

The location of the ejector in the Sten is important, but in relation to the ejection port, not the magazine. Way back when DLO was starting out building Stens, there were several he put together with the ejector welded in too far to the rear. My buddy Carl Silver wrote an article for the long-defunct Machine Gun News describing how to relocate the ejector for proper functioning. Just like the Sten in the thread you reference, if the ejector is too far back, the empty casing can hit the edge of the ejection port and get bounced back into the action. Moving it forward cures the problem. If your Sten ejects properly with the original magazine well in place, moving the location of the magazine slightly should not cause any problems.

Awesome. Very good explanation!

 

[skoda]

You have to remember that in a blowback-operated firearm like the Sten, the extractor isn't pulling the casing out of the chamber, the casing is driving the bolt to the rear. The casing WILL be firmly held in the bolt face even if the extractor isn't installed. The extractor only provides a pivot point for the casing to rotate around so it gets thrown out of the ejection port. The position of the magazine is irrelevant during this process and the gun will eject just fine even if there is no magazine in it.

Good description DINK. My extractor pin broke and my extractor went flying the last time that I fired my STEN. Fortunately for me it flew into my magazine carrier of all places so I didn't lose it. I kept shooting and expected some failures to eject properly but it ran fine. Of course I replaced the extractor and pin when I got home but I was surprised that just the ejector and the face of the bolt was enough to kick the spent cases out.

 

[DINK]

Yeah- Beretta made many little pistols that never even had extractors. The barrels would "tip up" to load or empty the chamber and when fired, the casings would self-extract and toss themselves out into the ozone with no extractor needed.

 

[Jmacken37]

Fun project Skoda. Not to nitpick, but I wonder if there is a way to "capture" the spring between the thumb section of your lever and the magwell so that it doesn't come loose and get lost in the grass at the range.

 

[skoda]

Fun project Skoda. Not to nitpick, but I wonder if there is a way to "capture" the spring between the thumb section of your lever and the magwell so that it doesn't come loose and get lost in the grass at the range.

I use the screw head as a spring retention. I just chose an allen head that was a tad tight for the spring. It doesn't fall off. Also there is enough preload on the spring by the lever that keeps it pushed against the screw.

I'm working on a Sterling mag adaptor now. I found it in the Laidler book that I have had for many years but somehow missed it. Wish me luck.

 

[StenAtopia]

I’ll be posting up my two concepts next Saturday. Had to have my welder make a few tweaks. One uses a m11/9 magwell so it’s just insert a shockwave mag and go. (It’s a little long) the other uses an entirely new mag catch made into a standard Sten magwell housing. It does reguire a small 1/4” hole drilled in the back of the shockwave mag. It’s uses one of the spot welds on the shockwave mag as a locater. Pics will describe it all. They both came out cool. Pics to follow soon