Semiauto UZI - Serious tool or a Range Toy?

You think the Semiauto UZI is a...

  • Range Toy or Plinker (Not a top choice for SHTF)

    Votes: 304 34.5%
  • Serious Tool I would be comfortable with if SHTF (One of my top choices)

    Votes: 456 51.8%
  • NO OPPINION - Vote here if you don't have an oppinion but want to see results

    Votes: 120 13.6%

  • Total voters
    880

Goat

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Sorry, dead horse, but you are gonna get whipped some more...

The Uzi is a fantastic PDW. I would venture to say it is one of the best small, easily carried, easily operated defensive weapons of our time.

Now before you flame my ass for using the word defensive...

The Uzi is not a 'main battle rifle' or 'assault rifle'. It is not a FAL, AK-47, CETME, or AR-15.

Yes, people have successfully used the Uzi in an offensive role more times than I would like to count. Yes we all love the Uzi. Furthermore we can chase our own tails all night long as to what the best weapon is for your SHTF.

That said, I feel that a semi auto Uzi carbine would do well in a bad situation.

I would gladly carry one till I could get to my full-auto-commando-BREn-gun-krink-super-switchblade-bayonet-with-flashlitelasers-and-air-freshener. I hope you would too.
 

Gabe Suarez

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The pistol caliber carbine (as the modern technique people call it), the "machine pistol" (as Jeff Cooper and the Germans in WW2 called it), or the SMG - Submachinegun as I like to call it, has its own niche in the tactical scheme of things...just like the shotgun does. In that niche it works great, but outside of it, it is at a disadvantage. Interesting that I could say that for just about every small arm out there. All tools have an intended purpose and there is not a do-everything weapon.

The original submachinegun was intended to put down a great deal of fire on a given “objective” at close range. These weapons preceded the modern assault rifle and were never intended to reach out past a given short distance. As submachinegun manufacture developed, we saw a move from the old world manufactured weapons like the Thompson (which is quite heavy by modern standards) to the WW2 vintage weapons like the Sten and MP-40. Later more compact designs like the Uzi and Ingram developed, some being very compact submachineguns like the Uzi, Mini Uzi and MP5. Others becoming little more than a big pistol with a stock attached like the Skorpian, the M-10, and the Micro Uzi.

Anyone who has worked with a Class 3 SMG will never consider it a waste of time, a useless weapon, nor would he eschew it in a fight if he had a choice. But Class 3 weapons are costly and out of the realm of most people’s armories. While I can afford a Class 3 Uzi and legally own it in Free Arizona, I find it hard to justify the expenditure of several thousand dollars. Specially since the use of full auto is a very limited attribute of the weapon. I recall doing much more work with single shots – maybe bursts of no more than three with the MP5 while in SWAT. Recently I was discussing UZI deployment with some friends who were former IDF Special Operators, and they told me virtually all their work was in semi auto. In fact, after some thinking, my friend could not remember a time when they ever used full auto capability operationally.

So what about the semi auto varieties? These are far more available to everyone today. Before I get into the advantage/liability discussion of this, I want to lay out what I see as the role of each category of small arm.

The pistol does nothing exceedingly well other than being small. Being small it can live on your person every day and be ready at hand in the blink of an eye. It is sufficiently powerful to handle problems inside arms reach to about the distance seen in most homes. In trained hands it can reach much farther, but in most hands it is good to about 25 yards.

All things being equal, a pistol will not do well against a rifle or a shotgun, nor a submachine gun.

The rifle’s best attribute is power. This can be taken to extremes so we will say “adequate power”. One would not consider a 500 Nitro as an infantry weapon for example. Excluding sniper/marksman’s activities and focusing on CQB, the rifle also has the4 attribute of high volume of fire, the ability to penetrate cover in many calibers, and the ability to reach out several hundred yards. Along with that comes size, and difficulty in concealing and carry. Additionally, the ability of the rifle to penetrate and reach may be advantageous in some cases, but a serious liability on other cases. Even an AKSU (also called a Krinkov, or Suzchka) may not be the best answer for home defense in an apartment, or to deploy inside a car as some examples.

The shotgun’s role is as a close range power tool that can allow a response in rapidly moving situations, in reduced light and against superior numbers. Its utility is in its use of buckshot, but its liability is a lack of reach, penetration, precision, and the same size issues as the rifle.

Now please don’t fall into the typical American gun guy mentality of “all or nothing” and begin writing on the internet that Gabe hates rifles, pistols and shotguns because it is not true. But I understand, and hopefully you will to understand the characteristics of these various weapon systems and where they are good and where they are not.

With that in mind, let’s examine the pistol caliber carbine that I call the submachinegun. If left in its, NFA/GCA68 condition, it will yield no advantage greater than any rifle length weapon. If I must have a 16” barrel with a folded stock that opens up to probably 25 or 26 inches, why would I bother with this when I can have an AK-47 or an M4? The only situation would be if I anticipated all my shots being needed inside of 50 yards, and had serious concerns about penetration and the problem of missed shots over reaching my comfort zone. Moreover, if minimally trained people, or small people were going to use the gun.

For example, my junior staff can run an UZI far better than they can run an AR-15 or an AK. Interestingly, they can shoot better with the UZI than with a pistol. For that matter, so can I. The addition of two more contact points (cheek and shoulder) over the “hands only” pistol is a boon to accuracy outside the close range envelope.

Can it compete with a full rifle like an AR, AK, or a FAL? No it can’t but neither can a Glock or a 1911. But other than constant carry issues, once the weapons are in hand, the SMG will always outshine the pistol when used by operators of equal skills for the reasons I described.

Now, let’s add another factor. Length. If one takes his 16” barreled UZI or HK-94 or whatever, and has the barrel shortened to original specs (yes, yes – with all the evil paperwork completed and guvmint approval in hand), you have a whole new animal in hand.

Since have been talking about the UZI, a non-NFA UZI with a 16” barrel (and stock folded up) is 25” long. This is as long as an AK with the stock folded. With the barrel shortened to 10” the UZI is a very compact 18” long. Eighteen inches long! That will fit in a lap top bag, or a tree-hugger backpack. This is something you can take with you all day everyday, where even the folded-stock AK may be left behind simply out of convenience.
So what we have then is a weapon that is small enough (18” long), light enough (8 pounds), with a serious capacity (25 or 32 round magazines), and the capability to easily hit out to 100 yards in the hands of minimally trained personnel, whose caliber likely can be the same as the main carry pistol, and whose ballistics will not yield the penetration of a rifle, nor the distance traveled of an errant rifle round. And whose low sound and flash signature will not be disorienting in a close range interior fight.

Those are some very interesting attributes that are not provided by pistol, shotgun, or rifle. Thus there is in fact a role and a purpose for the semi auto pistol caliber submachinegun. I like the concept and will look deeper into its possible future deployment.

__________________

Gabe Suarez
 

WB5MHA

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Although I would have called it a range toy once my UZI was secured in my sleepover bag the night of Y2K; I was assigned to ring in the New Year at a county hospital/trauma center. The feeling was very secure during a very quiet shift. Some months later a few of my colleagues went to work unarmed in New Orleans the night of Katrina. When I heard their their stories (we hired a few when they showed up in Houston) an UZI semiautomatic carbine or pistol was clearly called for.

Shoot safely
 

drbones2nd

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I have always viewed my class 3 collection as a hobby and never have given much thought to tactical training or their abilities to function in a hostile environment. These guns are locked up all of the time and if I feel the need to defend my household, I have a glock and a pump shotgun that would do just fine.

Apart from armageddon or zombies attacking, using an nfa weapon for defensive purposes is just not a good idea. A prosecutor would have a field day with you in court. Remember, the public majority does not know the difference between a semi auto uzi or a full auto uzi..they are all machineguns. And when that prosecutor holds up your uzi in court in front of the jury, and says can you believe the defendant used this???? well, you get the idea.

In the majority of defensive scenarios, a good shotgun and back up pistol would be enough IMO. I know there are the what ifs but for the most part, these will serve you just fine..

So for now, my nfa guns are for enjoyment and as a hobby.
 

FMF

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I agree , for home defense I use a Model 3 S&W in .44 Rus, even at over 100 plus years old it is still more then enought gun , I also have the 870 handy , everything else is locked up tight.
 

WB5MHA

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drbones2nd said:
I have always viewed my class 3 collection as a hobby and never have given much thought to tactical training or their abilities to function in a hostile environment. These guns are locked up all of the time and if I feel the need to defend my household, I have a glock and a pump shotgun that would do just fine.

Apart from armageddon or zombies attacking, using an nfa weapon for defensive purposes is just not a good idea. A prosecutor would have a field day with you in court. Remember, the public majority does not know the difference between a semi auto uzi or a full auto uzi..they are all machineguns. And when that prosecutor holds up your uzi in court in front of the jury, and says can you believe the defendant used this???? well, you get the idea.

In the majority of defensive scenarios, a good shotgun and back up pistol would be enough IMO. I know there are the what ifs but for the most part, these will serve you just fine..

So for now, my nfa guns are for enjoyment and as a hobby.

Just for the record the UZI mentioned is an UZI Pistol (not NFA) which I am licensed to carry in this state. It is legally no different than any other pistol so a "prosecutor" could not be in the picture. I was in violation of no laws for which I could be prosecuted. Now if, for example I shot the first endtimer cultest charging at me with a pitchfork, or gangbanger with 32 automatic coming my way civil action (lawsuit) would certainly be taken against me and it would be costly whether I defended myself with my UZI Pistol or grandpa's hundred fifty year old cap and ball revolver. Oddly, here in Texas tomahawks fall under the list of weapons that are illegal to carry. Pistols are legal when carried by licensed individuals.
 

drbones2nd

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No disrespect, but as I stated before, an uzi pistol looks just like a micro uzi machinegun and to the average ignorant jury pool, there is no difference. The point I am making is if you choose to carry a weapon to defend yourself, you might be better of choosing one that does not look like a machine gun. Remember, whenever there is a drug bust or arrest on CNN and there is any black guns involved, the reporters will without a doubt say they confiscated a large weapons cache involving machineguns like uzis and AK47's and the majority of the sheep watching CNN will believe it... These same sheep will be the ones that will pass judgment on you in a court of law...
 

jim c 351

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juries

drbones2nd said:
No disrespect, but as I stated before, an uzi pistol looks just like a micro uzi machinegun and to the average ignorant jury pool, there is no difference. The point I am making is if you choose to carry a weapon to defend yourself, you might be better of choosing one that does not look like a machine gun. Remember, whenever there is a drug bust or arrest on CNN and there is any black guns involved, the reporters will without a doubt say they confiscated a large weapons cache involving machineguns like uzis and AK47's and the majority of the sheep watching CNN will believe it... These same sheep will be the ones that will pass judgment on you in a court of law...

drbones,
To take your point a step further. In the book " In the gravest extreme" by Massad Iyoob, its better if a jury here's that you shot your opponent with a Colt detective special, rather than a Colt Cobra.
I guess if words didn't make a big difference Obama wouldn't be president.
Jim
 

drbones2nd

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Well said.. Thanks for that quote.

I believe everyone has the right to carry what they wish. However, just be aware of the consequences if your forced to use that weapon in a defensvie role. Just because you can, does not always mean you should. It is always better to be judged by 12 than carried by six but understand how those 12 perceive the world around them. ALL military looking weapons are viewed by the general public as machine guns and you can thank the media for that.
 

jim c 351

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drbones2nd said:
Well said.. Thanks for that quote.

I believe everyone has the right to carry what they wish. However, just be aware of the consequences if your forced to use that weapon in a defensvie role. Just because you can, does not always mean you should. It is always better to be judged by 12 than carried by six but understand how those 12 perceive the world around them. ALL military looking weapons are viewed by the general public as machine guns and you can thank the media for that.

If I may add to your comment once again.-
If you loose to a criminal, You may be killed, beaten, stabbed, raped, & robbed.
If you loose to a prosecutor , You will be caged with a thousand criminals who would enjoy killing, beating, stabbing, raping and robbing you. And you will be unarmed.
I guess this means a prosecutor is potentially more dangerous than a criminal.
Give much thought before acting.
Jim
 

edgepulse

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Someone started this thread that does not have an UZI. Maybe always wanted one but, cares too much what a,"HE MAN" dad, brother or, sh*t kicker buddies thought of him. "AWH MAN, use a .45 caliber!" 9mm is for P**SIES. I have heard this all before from the ignorant bastards with Chew in their lip.

I would stand with a well working proven UZI 16 inch semi auto carbine!
 
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Patriot

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edgepulse said:
have heard this all before from the ignorant bastards with chew in their lip and cowboy boots on.

Who really cares?!?!

Watch it with the stereotypes, butthead. Wanna start a fight? Do it in person. Being a keyboard command doesn't impress anyone.
The OP, Quarterbore, is a great guy, quite knowledgeable concerning firearms, and most certainly does not fit your stereotype.
Yes, I own an Uzi. IMI. I also own several 45s, and a bunch of 9mm handguns. I even own and occasionally wear boots. As far as ignorance goes, your is obviously showing by your limited use of proper grammar and punctuation.
 

indrid_cold

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I have a FA carbine, SBR semi carbine and a 16 inch semi carbine.

Someone made a fairly serious unusual threat against me several months ago.

I carried my Glock 19 on my person and in my vehicle and by my bed I had a semi-auto folder AK. Absent the AK, I would have been comfortable with one of my UZI's
 

mefly2

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I finally - after a 30 year hiatus - got another S/A full size Uzi carbine. What a pleasure to shoot at the range ... would I use it in a home defense situation ... of course ... if more "conveniently - accessed" weapons were not available. Unless the carb is stored with a round chambered, it is slower to put into action than most revolvers or pistols ... but then there is the intimidation potential mentioned by some. However, it would never be a good idea to display any weapon just for the sake of intimidation; that is illegal in most jurisdictions (brandishing is the term used around here). As time moves on and technology evolves, law enforcement has moved from the standard 38spl cartridge to the wonder nines to the .40 ... and many back to the .45ACP. Similarly, the special units have moved from the shotgun/Thompson to the 9mm variants to the 5.56 long guns.

The old adage ... Take a gun (or two) to a gunfight - preferably a rifle / carbine ... and as many of your [armed] friends as you can find. On duty, I carry a 1911 because that is what I shoot well ... and also have faith in its stopping potential, but an AR is also at the ready. At home, the U, HK, V, et all are at the ready ... and preferred by my wife.
 

TheDarkHorse

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Newb's 2 cents

I'm new to the forum and to the UZI. I bought mine with collectability in mind....to have something to pass along to my son one day. I have other, more practical weapons for home defense, armageddon, etc. As some have already stated, the right tool for the job. What better home defense tool than a short-barreled 12 gauge? What would be better for urban warfare (shtf) than the AK-47?

So, yes I believe the UZI 9mm has it's own niche and even in SA carbine form, but I can't say that it would be my go-to gun if things went nuts...
 

jugrunner

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Not my first choice although I might put it in a pack on my back ... along with a hacksaw ... no shortage in ammo but it's just a big pistol with a long barrel that gets in the way ... the hacksaw would make it useful in a SHTF situation and FA is another story altogether !! ...

a good AK is what I'll grab ... sorry ... :)
 

FMF

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For SHTF I would choose a Folding stock AK , I have several AR 15s , a UZI and FN's but if I could only have 1 Gun it would be a AK
 
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