Reg Rec. Group Industries Uzi having some issues...

[rhouston8]

I get 1-2 jams per 30 round mag. Seems to be ammo independent and mag independent. Typical failure is a spent casing stovepiped in the ejection port and I sometimes also get failure to feed on only the last round or two.

Any words of wisdom on what approach I should take in eval'ing and fixing this issue? No light primer strikes.

I havent tried +P ammo but will soon. Mostly shooting steel case Wolf, Tula, etc but also brass Sellier and Bellot. I've heard they prefer hot ammo but Im skeptical that this is the primary issue. Gun is clean when shot.

How can one tell if the ejector is worn out or abnormal? Does the use of a suppressor affect the % of jams, in general (assuming gun is clean)?

thanks,

hh.

 

[RoverDave]

If you haven't already, step through this information in the UZI Talk library. My GI gun had a very tight top cover and was not allowing the bolt to travel freely.

 

[rhouston8]

Perfect. Thanks RoverDave. Will review and troubleshoot a bit more and see what turns up. I'm an HK guy primarily...just learning the Uzi open bolts....

-HH

 

[rhouston8]

OK. Have read the attached library article and did some trouble shooting at the workbench.
Here's some of what I discovered after following the article's advise...

1. Barrel nut is tight and no broken teeth.
2. Barrel has zero play when barrel nut is tight
3. Trunion does not appear to have shifted forward(see pics)
4. Ejector is riveted tight. It does ever so slightly tilt (see pics) to the left (selector side of the weapon) but it properly clears the bolt without any friction at all.
5. The extractor appears OK to me. It's claw looks good although the hole its shaft resides in was packed with crap. I removed, cleaned, re-installed.
6. No friction with bolt movement
7. My top cover- bolt gap was alarmingly high at .060"....which likely accounts for the occasional multi-shots I experienced when on semi fire. I bent it back to make the gap .010".

8. see pic for ammo I typically run. Tula, Winchester white box, and WPA...all 115 grain.
9. I manually pushed the bolt (top cover off, no spring) over a partially loaded mag slowly to watch the bullet strip from the mag, up the feed ramp, into the chamber. Looked a bit sloppy and off center to me but seemed to work OK. I have no reference as to what it should look like but I think mine is fine.

What I plan to do tomorrow:

1. Note how far out the casing kick out
2. Try a few mags of +P in the gun
3. Try my regular cheap non +P ammo with various mags with the now cleaned, inspected, and better top cover gap'd gun.
4. I have a spare bolt and top covers I could try out as well. Replacement extractors and recoil rod inbound from parts dealer.

Anything else I can do in the field to help diagnose my occ. "jams" which is mostly stovepiping...1-2 rnds per mag?

Thanks,

Houston

 

[sousa]

I had the same issues with my Norinco when I first got it. A few taps on the ejector rivet fixed it right up. I'd bet that your problem lies there.

 

[rhouston8]

I had the same issues with my Norinco when I first got it. A few taps on the ejector rivet fixed it right up. I'd bet that your problem lies there.

Was your loose? Mine doesnt feel loose to my finger, etc.

-HH

 

[RoverDave]

If the extractor hole was flled with junk, cleaning that out may make a significant difference. Let us know how today's test goes. If it's still a problem, you might try a new extractor.

 

[rhouston8]

Some Follow Up on my Group Uzi issues...

I went thru the whole troubleshooting article that RoverD linked to. Thanks! My top cover gap was huge....050" or something. Should have been a runaway gun but wasn't overall despite some doubles being fired when on semi. Anyway, I cleaned grunge out of the extractor area, verified fit of everything including barrel to trunion, barrel nut teeth, Ejector, and no bolt friction. Then took her back out to the range. Was sorely disappointed b/c she still ran with 1-2 jams per 25 or 32 rnd mag...stovepiping mostly but some double feeds and funky stuff within the open bolt. Tried and recorded at least 5 different types of ammo...including the wallet devastating +P...all the same, no difference. Tried 115gr up to 140'ish gr I believe. Anyway I was pissed.

Cleaned, looked gun over and bought another bevy of ammo types for a final test ...with different mags, etc. Ran 100%. I mean zero failures. Hmmm. Then I realized that this day I was shooting all BRASS ammo.

Took her out today for a final verification of the Brass vs Steel. Yep. She shoots 99%+ with all brass but shoots only 80% with any type of steel.

So....She's a Brass-only gun I guess. Funny, b/c I dont remember reading posts on how one runs better than the other, all else the same. I've heard the "Uzis like hot ammo ",etc mantra but failed to catch the brass vs steel. Anyone else go thru this learning curve? Is my Group Ind (last digits of serial # in the 300's) an aberration or do all Uzis strongly prefer brass. The difference was remarkable. I have the actual round data written down in my log book for the gun.

Lastly, my Group Ind. wielding buddy was shooting with me as a control. His preferred brass over steel as well. He replaced his Ejector with an IMI factory one...it looks different and rides higher and with a different curve than the one that I think is stock in my Group. He had also replaced his recoil spring assembly with IMI whereas I have not.

I ran my subgun ord .22 kit on it today.... 90% on CCI and Blazer. Lots of fun. Real fast ROF.

-HH

 

[RoverDave]

Glad to hear you got it running. I'd guess the problem is that the steel ammo happens to be weaker than the brass ammo you were using. If you haven't done it already, you should replace the original extractor with an IMI extractor. GI made their own extractors and they were often a problem. Vector never made their own extractors so it was only an issue with original GI guns.

 

[rhouston8]

RD,

You know...I'd think the same...but I used several different types and grains of each and the only factor that influenced the function was brass v. steel.

I guess I should replace that extractor...wait, I did. I bought some from RTG and did so.

The Ejector is still vector and not IMI. I noticed that my buddy's Group with an IMI ejector was kicking casings out 2 o'clock position about 8' whereas my Group with the stock ejector kinda dribbled them out 3 o'clock at 3'.......and we were shooting the same ammo.

thx

HH

 

[Samuel_Hoggson]

Steel case material as a determinant makes me wonder about a primary extraction issue. Certainly, a bad extractor can be at fault. But so can a rough chamber (steel relaxes slower than brass).

I'm not sure from your last post whether you've run steel with a new extractor installed? Also, can you try steel cased with a different SMG barrel?

I had the opposite problem. Mine wouldn't run with brass, but ate steel 100%. No dropped extractions (empty plus live round), just misfeeds with any mag tried. Turned out to be the high mileage IMI bolt/extractor combination.

Sam

 

[rhouston8]

I have a new IMI extractor but not a new ejector.

stovepipings and crushing of empty steel casing occur. Usually with a live round already fed up into the chamber. Seems the non-ejected steel case basically gets caught up and blocks the bolt. I've found casings in weird spots in there. Sometimes even requiring dental pliers to pull out, etc.

But for now....I'm happy as is . I'll just shoot brass in it and not bother changing anything else. I do anticipate that my next work on the gun will consist of replacing the ejector though.

-HH

 

[Samuel_Hoggson]

So misfeeds are caused by non-ejected empties. Sounds very much liked dropped extraction, or marginal ejector function. You could look at it as problem solved. But I'd be wondering if a different lot of brass, a different ambient temperature, a different anything would make it act up again.

Agree on restaking or replacing the ejector. I hope you'll let us know if, after doing this, you're able to run steel again. If it doesn't fix things, I'd be curious to see if a different barrel resolved the issue.

Sam

 

[rhouston8]

I will update what occurs.
Im just not very motivated to go thru the trouble of replacing that riveted ejector unless really needed. The thing is ...I do like to shoot the cheaper steel crap ...so I might go ahead and replace it now.

Funny thing about barrels....I did buy an extra used barrel from someone. It doesnt seat all the way into my Group...but it does in my friends Group. Go figure.

-HH

 

[Garrett]

If you haven't done it already, you should replace the original extractor with an IMI extractor. GI made their own extractors and they were often a problem. Vector never made their own extractors so it was only an issue with original GI guns.

Can you elaborate on this? Did it lead to poor ejection as rhouston is having? Could it cause feeding issues as the case rim may have issues snapping past the exteactor as it feeds into the chamber? That is the most common malfunction I have with my pre-Vector GI Uzi.

And for the record, I primarily shoot reloads but I've run a couple thousand rounds of Wolf through my gun without issue.

 

[RoverDave]

Garrett, I not sure what the specific malfunctions were, but I'd guess that it was primarily ejection problems. What I do know is that when GI used to test their guns prior to shipping them, 80% of the failures they found during test firing were caused by the ejectors.

 

[9mmsubgun-m11]

Was shooting with a group of friends last weekend and one of my buddies was running Tula in his FA Uzi with no luck either-just not hot enough.

 

[dantheman]

my semi Vector was problematic when i purchased it 6yrs ago, i had the same problems with failures to eject regularly and the last 2 or 3rds would jam in the magazines..

1) i concluded that my failures to eject were caused by a combination of an extremely tight (compared to other uzis ive sampled) return spring and an extremely dirty extractor, i eventually shot down the spring and the real difference came when i cleaned the extractor.. FTEs solved

2) the mag issue i resolved simply by loading magazines 3rds under max capacity, ie 22rds in a 25rd mag and 29rds in a 32rd mag, as most of mine are surplus

hope this helped

 

[rhouston8]

Some follow up...

I'm not 100% sure what combo of issues was causing my FTEs as stated thru-out this thread...but they have been solved. Seems cleaning out extractor hole and replacing the extractor did the most help. And I bent the top cover a bit to lower that excessive gap. From that point it ran brass 100% but steel/alum had one-several jams per mag.

Shot a lot of brass thru the gun. 1,000 rnds or whatever. Then tried steel Silver Bear just the other day. Ran 99%. Go figure. Anyway the gun is running fine, w/ and w/o suppressor. The .22 kit runs great too. See vids.

Thanks guys

HH


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[regalgseguy]

Try the Tula steel case ammo. Seems hotter than WWB and runs great in my GI/Vector RR gun.