Pre-86 to transferable

[Hiller]

Had an Uzi become transferable.


R/s, Hiller……

 

[Hey...]

Awesome 🇺🇸 Rare surprise

 

[gocargo]

i’ve been off the forms for almost 3 years and haven’t been paying attention to title twos, what does this mean ? Thanks.

 

[Hey...]

i’ve been off the forms for almost 3 years and haven’t been paying attention to title twos, what does this mean ? Thanks.

Basically that some guns imported as pre-86 dealer samples were deemed by the ATF to be transferable. That means a chunk of samples are now added to supply, and holders of those (previous samples) now have something worth considerably more as a transferable.

 

[gorillastomp]

I had one do the same thing. Worth much more than a regular transferable conversion (to the right person anyway). I was offered 5k more than the best conversion gun/USA made gun.

 

[Chef]

What wording/format (hand written letter or email) and address did you have to use to get that reply from the AFT?
I sent in a request months ago and got nothing but crickets back.

 

[roscoeturner]

Sending in a letter today on the Uzi I have, it was imported in 1976 by LES so hopefully it meets the criteria.

 

[Galil#1]

Sure A T F tricks... then before the rotten garbage w/cobal leaves DC... Surprise...mistake made - turn in all your new "transferables" or face arrest. Smh

 

[Hiller]

What wording/format (hand written letter or email) and address did you have to use to get that reply from the AFT?
I sent in a request months ago and got nothing but crickets back.

Hand written letter with

Model
Serial
My name and signature
Asking whether or not my pre-may had been reclassified as transferable.

Took a pic of the letter and my ffl and attached them to an email and sent it to nfafax@atf.gov 5/11/24. Received a written response in my usps mailbox about 5 months later.


R /s, Hiller…………

 

[Chef]

Hand written letter with

Model
Serial
My name and signature
Asking whether or not my pre-may had been reclassified as transferable.

Took a pic of the letter and my ffl and attached them to an email and sent it to nfafax@atf.gov 5/11/24. Received a written response in my usps mailbox about 5 months later.


R /s, Hiller…………

Thank you!

 

[Renegade]

i’ve been off the forms for almost 3 years and haven’t been paying attention to title twos, what does this mean ? Thanks.

FFLs with Pre-May guns are going to make more money, and dumb collectors are going to lose a lot when this gets overturned.

 

[Chef]

FFLs with Pre-May guns are going to make more money, and dumb collectors are going to lose a lot when this gets overturned.

Why would "collectors" lose?
I have to assume you're talking about individuals (non-SOT) who buy these former samples on a form 4 as an individual.
So if this ruling gets rolled back, do you think these people (non-SOT) who are currently in possession of these previous samples will be instructed to surrender them to the feds?
Because personally, I think this would be a very unlikely scenario.

 

[Renegade]

Why would "collectors" lose?
I have to assume you're talking about individuals (non-SOT) who buy these former samples on a form 4 as an individual.
So if this ruling gets rolled back, do you think these people (non-SOT) who are currently in possession of these previous samples will be instructed to surrender them to the feds?
Because personally, I think this would be a very unlikely scenario.

"if this ruling gets rolled back"

ATF has never allowed an entity (individual/SOT/LE) to keep a machine gun if they determined it was incorrectly transferred/possessed, even if it was their error in approving the xfer. Even if they did allow you to keep it if this was rolled back, the collector would still lose as it would then sell at pre-May prices and not transferable prices.

Much better option is to pay $150 for FFL/07, and $500 for SOT/02 ($650), and buy an actual pre-sample which you can then keep after giving up your SOT/FFL.

 

[GreaseGunner]

FYI-getting an FFL/SOT just to “enhance your private collection” is a quick way to get yourself into hot water with ATF….so thinking you can “get in on cheap stuff” isn’t going to go well in the end.

 

[Renegade]

FYI-getting an FFL/SOT just to “enhance your private collection” is a quick way to get yourself into hot water with ATF….so thinking you can “get in on cheap stuff” isn’t going to go well in the end.

In 30+ years, I have never met any FFL who did it "just to enhance your private collection". Even if that was your original intent, one will quickly find out that from buy/sell to gunsmithing to wholesaling, to xfers, it has never been easier to be in the business.

Even if you ONLY bought machine guns, buying low and selling high is a legitimate business model, turns a profit and will get no scrutiny. Ruben has been doing it for decades. Start at low end like MACs and work your way up as you profit from each flip.

 

[GreaseGunner]

Well getting an FFL/SOT and only doing it to make post samples as play toys and buy up pre samples then not selling anything is the definition of enhancing someone’s collection. There have been a few guys nailed for it lately in my area so hence why I’m saying something.

When I had my review/audit/inspection, a comment was made as to why I had so many post samples of vintage machine guns-Thompson, ppsh-41, 1918 bolt and so on…given I had pre sample and transferable ones as well. I took that for the hint it was intended-no one is using those types of guns anymore so it’s pretty obvious they are play toys only. Do as you will, but in this climate, I’ll error to the side of extreme caution.

 

[Renegade]

Well getting an FFL/SOT and only doing it to make post samples as play toys ...

Making Post Samples? You have drifted pretty far from the original line of discussion.

Once again, getting an FFL/SOT to buy low and sell high is a legitimate business model, turns a profit and will get no scrutiny.

 

[GreaseGunner]

Agree to disagree given your comment was:

“Much better option is to pay $150 for FFL/07, and $500 for SOT/02 ($650), and buy an actual pre-sample which you can then keep after giving up your SOT/FFL.”

Which is literally telling someone to get an FFL/SOT to buy pre samples so they can keep them. Pretty much saying “pay $650 and buy up stuff you can keep” that’s literally enhancing one’s collection and those are your words I quoted….also it’s funny you neglected to add the part where I said about buying pre samples to keep/not sell. Selective reading and quoting to fit your own narrative much?

 

[Renegade]

Agree to disagree given your comment was:

“Much better option is to pay $150 for FFL/07, and $500 for SOT/02 ($650), and buy an actual pre-sample which you can then keep after giving up your SOT/FFL.”

Which is literally telling someone to get an FFL/SOT to buy pre samples so they can keep them. Pretty much saying “pay $650 and buy up stuff you can keep” that’s literally enhancing one’s collection and those are your words I quoted….also it’s funny you neglected to add the part where I said about buying pre samples to keep/not sell. Selective reading and quoting to fit your own narrative much?

If you believe I was telling people to get an FFL/SOT and buy ONE pre-sample, never renew your FFL/SOT and never sell the gun, Um, OK.

File it under "things nobody has EVER done".

eta

Here 20+ years, I have never advocated doing anything improper. It just seems obvious folks who get FFLs would follow laws. I guess not as obvious as I thought to some.

Most folks who get FFLs expect to give them up at some time, so knowing you do not have to dispose of the gun is a benefit, and I was pointing it out.

 

[slimshady]

A legitimate reason to build or buy a pre or post sample by an 07 is research and development. Everything old is new again. Studying a WWI Maxim or MP18 might reveal an interesting design feature you could incorporate or modify in the new design you were sketching on a napkin. At worst you now know how not to do something.