Police Model origins

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Best thing I think about the 80's now as I'm older was the level of tech we had.

Enough to be damn comfortable but not so much that we were spied on like today.

In the 80's you didn't say " that " over the phone for fear of someone listining.
Now days it's all " hey elexa how do I ***"
And everyone putting their personal live on social media.

80's were a great time to be alive probably the pinicle for me.

This.


I always wonder how the hell people behaved themselves as well as they did back in those days… before there were cameras on every single structure in the free world. You would think the crime rates would have been through the roof but I think they have topped off in the mid to late 90s… when “big brother” first started to become what it is today. Seems people had stronger morals and values in those days. Now these kids will do anything for a little Tik tok clout. I never thought I’d be that “old guy” bitching about the younger generation, but here we are.

Anyway, back to police guns… the RPB “police gun” in question with the chrome plated bolt may not have left the factory as a blue steel gun. That blue finish may be a custom job done aftermarket along with the chrome plated bolt. RPB did not chrome plate like that as far as I know of… they used an electroless nickel for those Argentine military contract bolts and special run guns. As far as I know RPB never built or sold a polished blue police model. It’s possible they would have sold some left over MAC police guns but those would have been MAC papered guns with MAC roll marks. I have never seen an RPB overstamp police model and neither has my buddy who’s got the RPB bound book (edit: the book doesn’t specify finishes unfortunately) . Until I find some kind of documentation that proves otherwise, I think that RPB polished blue gun was a custom piece. Looks like they polished a barrel extension with it as well…. The MAC police guns did not come with a matching barrel extension like that. That gun is probably a fancy custom finished piece that belonged to some Cuban Coke baron in the early 80s. 😂

 

[renovate7]

And when you get to my age, 50 years reunion coming up.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

And when you get to my age, 50 years reunion coming up.View attachment 39131

And when you get to my age, 50 years reunion coming up.View attachment 39131

Woof, I could have gone all my life without having to see this room full of half naked grandmas. The one in the blue has a nice rack though not gonna lie 😂

 

[Deerhurst]

And it suddenly turned into ARFCOM in here....

 

[Gaujo]

Just remember this if you decide to marry. Better like her company.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

And it suddenly turned into ARFCOM in here....

And we aren’t even in the “GD” area of uzitalk either…. We’ve got half naked grandmas in a technical forum, that’s even worse than arfcom 😂

 

[GK8041]

Ghost, I agree.

I just started reading The Mac Man. Looks to be an interesting history lesson. What stands out to me, is the amount of technical, informational, and logistical effort that went into the M10 production. I have a new found respect for this smg/mp.

Not a whole lot in the book on the police variant, so any additional insights or anecdotes re the rarer factory blued guns would be helpful.

 

[Jefferson1826]

My M10 is an RPB and has a nice mirror-like blue; in the pile of accessories it came with were a blued barrel extension, a blued mag loader and a 40 round blued magazine. It looks like a presentation set when I put them together.

I’d like for this to be a factory finish but if it isn’t it won’t be the end of the world. If this is in fact an aftermarket finish someone did quite a slick job because this gun looks spectacular when I polish it up. The blue goes nice with the nickel bolt and safety selector.

 

[GK8041]

That's probably better than original factory bluing. Thanks for sharing @Jefferson1826. Great looking gun. I'm guessing a 'hot' blue was done do it. Have the internals been done as well? If so, can you post a pic?

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

My M10 is an RPB and has a nice mirror-like blue; in the pile of accessories it came with were a blued barrel extension, a blued mag loader and a 40 round blued magazine. It looks like a presentation set when I put them together.

I’d like for this to be a factory finish but if it isn’t it won’t be the end of the world. If this is in fact an aftermarket finish someone did quite a slick job because this gun looks spectacular when I polish it up. The blue goes nice with the nickel bolt and safety selector.

That finish is most definitely a “hot” blue finish. The safety selector is the OEM aluminum selector with the finish worn off it, or intentionally removed. Many of the RPB selectors I come across are aluminum in the white like that. I think they had a finish at some point but it must have come off those safeties very easily since basically all of them look to be raw unfinished aluminum without a hint of any finish remaining (if they even had one to begin with). The magazine loaders and magazines came in blue steel, black oxide and parkerized finishes. The most common finish for the mag loaders and magazines is blue steel. The barrel extensions did not come in a polished blue steel, so that is a custom piece. There were indeed polished blue steel “police” guns sold by MAC in 1971. As far as I know RPB did not sell a “police” model or polished blue gun. There were some special nickel guns though, and they always came with a matching nickel barrel extension, so it is possible the blue steel gun is a one off special RPB gun, but it’s not a production “police” model. Unfortunately the records don’t specify the finishes that the guns left the factory with, so we won’t ever know unless someone comes across an old shotgun news advertisement or something for the special edition blue steel guns.

That blue finish looks nicer and higher polished than anything I’ve ever seen that left the MAC or RPB factory. I think it’s a nicely done custom job.

 

[boomer535]

Here is a link to an unboxing, cleaning, and shooting of a NIB MAC10/9 Police Model with a matching Suppressor. I was salivating watching this video. This gun had the adjustable front sight and standard rear sight.

 

[Emeritus Liber Eremiticus]

It is no wonder there are so few police models around. The market timing was terrible. When I was sworn in in the very early '70s, the departments who wanted submachineguns already had them,. Quite often these were Thompsons or Reisings that had been in the armory as long as the oldest old timers remembered, and were pretty much taken out of secure lockup only when shown to groups of new hires during orientation..
Too, all sorts of police weapons and tools were being banished...saps, sap gloves, comealongs, and so forth, even the personal rifle in the trunk and personal ammo in sidearms were being banned wholesale and only issue ammo and specified sidearms allowed.
My department actually took to wrapping the shotguns with tape behind the forearm so the Sgt could tell if an officer had chambered a shell. S
Sure, SWAT groups were forming up and obtaining unusual weapons, but the absolute requirement of accounting for every bullet fired pretty much put the kibosh on any gun, including full auto guns, that was not entirely accurate when accuracy was called for., which is always. I think most Chiefs are hand wringers who wish they could disarm the department to avoid lawsuits in the first place. Sheriffs not so much.
I think too that the business acumen and the sales literature of ingram and the follow-on firms lacked by a long shot the clean lines and class of the professional gun manufacturer Big Boys of the day,. The Ingram firms seemed to be mimeograph and home printing their marketing stuff by comparison. That, I think, was particularly uninspiring at the ranks above the armorer who tried out the Ingrams. It is awful hard to sell the brass on any weapon you care to name or any "new" or costly item of any kind, and with only a personal test report and a writeup in Police Magazine, the brass were not convinced about the very inexpensive Ingram guns.
That is my sense of it.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

It is no wonder there are so few police models around. The market timing was terrible. When I was sworn in in the very early '70s, the departments who wanted submachineguns already had them,. Quite often these were Thompsons or Reisings that had been in the armory as long as the oldest old timers remembered, and were pretty much taken out of secure lockup only when shown to groups of new hires during orientation..
Too, all sorts of police weapons and tools were being banished...saps, sap gloves, comealongs, and so forth, even the personal rifle in the trunk and personal ammo in sidearms were being banned wholesale and only issue ammo and specified sidearms allowed.
My department actually took to wrapping the shotguns with tape behind the forearm so the Sgt could tell if an officer had chambered a shell. S
Sure, SWAT groups were forming up and obtaining unusual weapons, but the absolute requirement of accounting for every bullet fired pretty much put the kibosh on any gun, including full auto guns, that was not entirely accurate when accuracy was called for., which is always. I think most Chiefs are hand wringers who wish they could disarm the department to avoid lawsuits in the first place. Sheriffs not so much.
I think too that the business acumen and the sales literature of ingram and the follow-on firms lacked by a long shot the clean lines and class of the professional gun manufacturer Big Boys of the day,. The Ingram firms seemed to be mimeograph and home printing their marketing stuff by comparison. That, I think, was particularly uninspiring at the ranks above the armorer who tried out the Ingrams. It is awful hard to sell the brass on any weapon you care to name or any "new" or costly item of any kind, and with only a personal test report and a writeup in Police Magazine, the brass were not convinced about the very inexpensive Ingram guns.
That is my sense of it.

nice post. I agree with most all of this except for the part about the Ingram point of sale material and literature. The original MAC company didn’t cheap out the way some of the later firms did. military armament corporation had some nice looking sales brochures, especially the ”Cromwell” sales literature

i dont believe companies like Colt were really printing anything all that much more impressive looking at the time but I could be mistaken.

Some examples of the Military Armament corporation‘s glossy high quality brochures and sales literature:




funny that they chose to display an M10 .45 on the M11 sales sheet. Notice at the top left that they covered the original “Cromwell” logo with a Military Armament Corp label, I suppose that’s a bit “home made” looking, but it appears to be a last minute edit due to the investors backing out or another one of the many in-house squabbles they had going on.

 

[TSPC]

Who or what was Cromwell?