Police Model origins

GK8041

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Perhaps discussed elsewhere in a thread I could not find or in a book I don’t own, but were the blued (non parked) police models designated ‘police’ by the factory, or blued elsewhere before PD delivery?

Other than deduction by SN range or genuine documentation with an individual firearm, is there any way to determine if a blued PS M10 is actually a PD model?
 

A&S Conversions

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"THE MAC MAN" book by Frank Iannamico is a great book for the story and background of the Gordon B. Ingram submachineguns. It is my understanding that the Police Models were polished and blued. The standard finish was sand blasted and parkerized. The PD models are very rare and a collectors item. Could a PD model be faked? I would think so, but that would be for a RKI to determine.

Scott
 

Slowmo

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There is one for sale on Sturm. Looks like it has a different rear sight than the usual, but I have no idea if that is a modification or original factory variant.
 

Kramer

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There is one for sale on Sturm. Looks like it has a different rear sight than the usual, but I have no idea if that is a modification or original factory variant.
Looks like a M1 carbine rear sight. All the police units that I Have seen had the regular MAC 10 sight.
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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There is one for sale on Sturm. Looks like it has a different rear sight than the usual, but I have no idea if that is a modification or original factory variant.

all of the factory polished blue guns were sold as “police” models with the exception of some special one off custom pieces given as gifts to foreign dictators and warlords etc which also typically bore the initials of the recipient decoratively engraved on the receiver.

The old beat up one on sturm is a factory gun and it’s a rare one. That m1 carbine rear sight was a standard feature of the M10LR SMG (“long range.” carbine version), but apparently MAC also experimented with it on standard length guns as well, they would bob the top of the rear sight plate so that the m1 sight was visible.

If I remember correctly, they even offered m1 carbine sighting system installation as an option in one of their price lists. The MACMAN book has an old black and white photo of a gun with the m1 rear sight and “alternate style” buttstock (a standard feature of the M10LR carbine that was also sold by MAC as an aftermarket upgrade) with normal barrel length that is very similar if not identical to that police gun on sturm. Shame it’s not in better condition, though I suppose it could be properly reblued and brought back to life by somebody with talent.


Edit: Found it, looks like for the small fee of 40 dollars (about $250 in todays money) they would install the m1 carbine rear sight and an adjustable front sight for you. Keep in mind the dealer cost on the M10 with 1 magazine and a cleaning rod is $119 in this 1974 price list… so the installation of the sights cost nearly half the price of the gun, and you still couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn beyond 20yds with it, regardless of the improved sight picture.

IMG_2768.jpeg
 
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GK8041

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Great thread fellas. Thanks for the veteran insights and research. Interesting indeed the past manifestations of 'improved optics' on the humble M10. Fast forward - who'd a known the MAC would become rifle caliber/LPVO mount capable?
 

Gaujo

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all of the factory polished blue guns were sold as “police” models with the exception of some special one off custom pieces given as gifts to foreign dictators and warlords etc which also typically bore the initials of the recipient decoratively engraved on the receiver.

The old beat up one on sturm is a factory gun and it’s a rare one. That m1 carbine rear sight was a standard feature of the M10LR SMG (“long range.” carbine version), but apparently MAC also experimented with it on standard length guns as well, they would bob the top of the rear sight plate so that the m1 sight was visible.

If I remember correctly, they even offered m1 carbine sighting system installation as an option in one of their price lists. The MACMAN book has an old black and white photo of a gun with the m1 rear sight and “alternate style” buttstock (a standard feature of the M10LR carbine that was also sold by MAC as an aftermarket upgrade) with normal barrel length that is very similar if not identical to that police gun on sturm. Shame it’s not in better condition, though I suppose it could be properly reblued and brought back to life by somebody with talent.


Edit: Found it, looks like for the small fee of 40 dollars (about $250 in todays money) they would install the m1 carbine rear sight and an adjustable front sight for you. Keep in mind the dealer cost on the M10 with 1 magazine and a cleaning rod is $119 in this 1974 price list… so the installation of the sights cost nearly half the price of the gun, and you still couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn beyond 20yds with it, regardless of the improved sight picture.

View attachment 39092
It's time you came clean mister. HOW DO YOU KNOW THESE THINGS 😂
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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It's time you came clean mister. HOW DO YOU KNOW THESE THINGS 😂


I mean I am Mitch Werbell’s ghost….

But in all seriousness, reading and research. I am only 36 years old, I was not around during the good ole days, but I love history and I love collecting. I also buy/sell this stuff as a small side business so it helps to know what the hell you are looking at.
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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Where did you get that price list if I may ask?
I have a fairly large collection of original MAC/RPB/SWD catalogs and price lists. I have accumulated all of it over the last few years, most have come from other collectors selling them to me, thought a great deal of my paperwork collection also came from random folks that responded to my classified ads on sturm forums for Cobray/MAC stuff. I have taken a bunch of my collection of catalogs, sales sheets and price lists and printed it all in a compilation book that I sell on GB. If you are interested in a copy of the book shoot me a message.
 

pjm204

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I mean I am Mitch Werbell’s ghost….

But in all seriousness, reading and research. I am only 36 years old, I was not around during the good ole days, but I love history and I love collecting. I also buy/sell this stuff as a small side business so it helps to know what the hell you are looking at.

I assumed you were much older based on all of your MAC knowledge :ROFLMAO: Now it makes sense that the 87 in your username is the year you were born. I figured I was one of the younger members here at 38!
 

Deerhurst

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I assumed you were much older based on all of your MAC knowledge :ROFLMAO: Now it makes sense that the 87 in your username is the year you were born. I figured I was one of the younger members here at 38!
I just turned 32. There are some whippersnappers around here!
 

root

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The things you whipper snappers have missed WOW!

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion... I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... Time to die.
 

Gaujo

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crop.jpeg
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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I assumed you were much older based on all of your MAC knowledge :ROFLMAO: Now it makes sense that the 87 in your username is the year you were born. I figured I was one of the younger members here at 38!
Nope, I am what can still be considering “young” luckily! though I’ve always felt I was born in the wrong era… I missed out on the 80s and I have this strong nostalgic attachment to anything 80s, despite having only existed for the first 3 years of my life during that decade. Everything from the music to the cars, trucks, guns and the women from the 80s have always appealed to me way more than anything from the current time. If I could be 20 years older but have experienced the 80s, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
 

root

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Best thing I think about the 80's now as I'm older was the level of tech we had.

Enough to be damn comfortable but not so much that we were spied on like today.

In the 80's you didn't say " that " over the phone for fear of someone listining.
Now days it's all " hey elexa how do I ***"
And everyone putting their personal live on social media.

80's were a great time to be alive probably the pinicle for me.
 

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