Police Machine gun transferable or dealer sample??

[gorillastomp]

I have recently made friends with the local Sheriff. We got into the discussion of full auto weapons. He took me into his office and opened a locker and he had a true IMI Uzi and showed me the paper work. He asked me if this was a transferable Uzi or a dealer sample.

How can you tell if a police department gun on a form 5 is transferable or a sample?


Next question: how can you tell if the Uzi is a pre or post sample.

He told me there was some Vietnam era M16's that the department had acquired from the Army many years back and he never received any paperwork the guns where mailed from the Army by UPS with no information. He wanted to know if these would be transferable or sample also.

 

[Jager]

Machine guns in police armories I've seen are either on a Form 5 or Form 10, neither of which are transferable to civilians. As for the M16s, we have M14s in the armory. They are machine guns and cannot be transfered to civilians. They are Government property and can only be transfered to another law enforcement agency or returned to the military.

 

[mmi]

some cop guns are a bonny and clide Tommy gun that was stolen from a cop was returned and then sold to private party
i think Detroit has some

 

[Hey...]

It's been said that a large portion of the transferables are actually .gov inventory.

How can Washington DC have the highest MG ratio per capita?

Whether its a pre or post sample would depend on the paperwork, aside from that, serial numbers for various makes can narrow the 86 pre/post window, but that's not something to bet on. No telling really as a regular guy just looking at an otherwise old MG.

 

[sniperdoc]

As I understand things, just because an MG was made before 86 doesn't mean it's transferable.
If I understand correctly, a government gun had to be transferred to civilian hands before "cutoff date".

 

[sniperdoc]

I'm sure some Transferable MGs have been seized, or turned over by heirs who either didn't want them,couldn't legally possess them, or were ignorant of the legality of them.
Bear in mind,there are possibly thousands of pre 1934 guns in police armories that were "gangster guns" bought at hardware stores.
Also, $200 was a LOT of money in 34, so it's possible that many were turned in by law abiding citizens who simply couldn't afford to register them.
And maybe some owners lived somewhere that the CLEO refused to sign,and forced the owners to surrender them?

 

[root]

Some of the police guns are transferable.

They had a auction here on GB last spring for a tommy gun so they could buy new equipment advertised it on the local news and all.

Then they had a local CIII dealer gun shop buy a COLT tommy for well under 20K that looked new and the last time it was signed out was 1969
It caused such a uproar in the community that the one I mentioned 1st went to auction because the public was so pissed Advanced Arms in Pittston Pa bought the COLT on a inside deal for next to no money.

Detroit was also thinking of auctioning off all of their hydromatic M16's when they were filing for bankruptcy but that got squished hard by local politics.
Was going to put a little over 200 transferable M16's back in the public's hands.

Some are transferable some arn't like others said you're just going to have to do the leg work to find out.
PD's sell the old transferable stuff all the time to upgrade gear or buy training.

Rich

 

[gorillastomp]

I know Ruben has sold police colt m16s numerous times. What I was asking and no one here has answered clearly is there a certain phrase on the form 5 or 10 that would indicate transferable, pre sample or post sample?

 

[rybread]

I've seen Wyco county and Providence RI police marked Thompsons up for auction over the past few years- I've lived in/ near both places and would have liked to picked one up but had other priorities at the time.

 

[sniperdoc]

I've seen "PD" guns for sale, but assumed they were transferred pre 86.

 

[mmi]

the nam m16 should be endless there is some agreement with the gov or just on loan . they should be able to sell them . i think you would have to ask the atf for a history on the gun . as long as they were registered in the us before 86 it does not matter who registered them .

 

[hkg3k]

Some mis-information in this thread....

Machine guns in police armories I've seen are either on a Form 5 or Form 10, neither of which are transferable to civilians.

A Form 5 is just an application for a tax-free transfer that may apply to any of several different situations...to include transfer of a police gun (transferable of course) to a non-licensed individual.

Other uses of the Form 5 are transfer to an heir, transfer of a registered DEWAT -and- back when BATF still required it...transfer for repair.

As I understand things, just because an MG was made before 86 doesn't mean it's transferable.

Correct...a pre-86 dealer sample would be an example. A MG imported after 1968, but made before 1986

If I understand correctly, a government gun had to be transferred to civilian hands before "cutoff date".

Not correct. If transferable, a police gun...to this day can still be transferred to a non-licensed individual tax free on Form 5

 

[slimshady]

If it's on a Form 10, forget about it. .GOV possession only.

If it's on a Form 5:

Question 1: Was the gun manufactured/registered after May 1986? If yes, not transferable. Limited transfers possible to NFA dealers/manufacturers.

Question 2: Was the gun imported prior to May 1986 but after the passage of the GCA '68? If yes, it is a Pre-May dealer sample and can be transferred to any NFA dealer. These can be retained by the dealer once his FFL/SOT expires.

Question 3: Was the gun imported prior to the GCA 1968? If yes, likely transferable to anyone and you hit the jackpot.

Question 4: Was the gun "made" in the USA prior to May 1986? ("Made" means the gun was manufactured from scratch, welded back together from a demil, or converted from a semi model) If yes, again likely a transferable worth big bucks.

 

[xdamagedx]

A few years back the local Sheriff dept. auctioned off a transferable M16. Don't remember the exact details (forgot it was in a back closet of their armory/decided it would never be used/trying to offset a defecit for new cars/who knows). But I definitely remember it was a transferable, and whoever bought it: ended up in a private collection.

 

[ATCDoktor]

There are plenty of current and former LE possessed machine guns in the NFTR that are transferable.

My AC556 was a former police gun:



It was formerly owned by the city Montevallo Alabama police department:

 

[gorillastomp]

If it's on a Form 10, forget about it. .GOV possession only.

If it's on a Form 5:

Question 1: Was the gun manufactured/registered after May 1986? If yes, not transferable. Limited transfers possible to NFA dealers/manufacturers.

Question 2: Was the gun imported prior to May 1986 but after the passage of the GCA '68? If yes, it is a Pre-May dealer sample and can be transferred to any NFA dealer. These can be retained by the dealer once his FFL/SOT expires.

Question 3: Was the gun imported prior to the GCA 1968? If yes, likely transferable to anyone and you hit the jackpot.

Question 4: Was the gun "made" in the USA prior to May 1986? ("Made" means the gun was manufactured from scratch, welded back together from a demil, or converted from a semi model) If yes, again likely a transferable worth big bucks.

Thank you for your help. This was what I was trying to figure out.

 

[tommygun2000]

I have recently made friends with the local Sheriff. We got into the discussion of full auto weapons. He took me into his office and opened a locker and he had a true IMI Uzi and showed me the paper work. He asked me if this was a transferable Uzi or a dealer sample.

How can you tell if a police department gun on a form 5 is transferable or a sample?


Next question: how can you tell if the Uzi is a pre or post sample.

He told me there was some Vietnam era M16's that the department had acquired from the Army many years back and he never received any paperwork the guns where mailed from the Army by UPS with no information. He wanted to know if these would be transferable or sample also.

Have your sheriff friend inquire to the ATF about it in writing about it's status. You cannot do it, you're not the owner.