I have decided to sell my fully automatic Mini Uzi that was converted by Billistics. The dealer that I reached out to sent me ATF Form 4 to sign and return to him. He stated that he would send me payment as soon as he received the signed form. He also stated that ATF approval is currently taking 2 or 3 months and that once approved, the new Form 4 would be sent to me by ATF. At that point, I am to ship the Uzi directly to him with the Form 4. My question is: What options do I have if he doesn't pay me? Can I contact the ATF and have them undo the transfer? Will the ATF do that? Or will I be breaking the law because I am in possession of a machine gun that is no longer registered to me? Is there a better way to do this transaction? The dealer lives in another state.
Options if not Paid for Machine Gun that I am Selling
- Thread starter TexPaul
- Start date
I’m THINK you can cancel the approved form 4 as long as he never took possession of the form 4 and the MG. You’ll just have to notify them and it shouldn’t be a problem.
If you’re dealing with a reputable dealer, you won’t get shafted. Lastly, you’d likely make more coin selling it on here or Sturm.
If you’re dealing with a reputable dealer, you won’t get shafted. Lastly, you’d likely make more coin selling it on here or Sturm.
Hi TexPaul,
KickStand is correct. If the physical transfer of the firearm to the buyer has not taken place, the seller (you) can just write a letter to BATF indicating the physical transfer did not take place and you want to cancel the transfer. I normally include the approved form 4 in the letter as an attachment if the transfer was approved. In time BATF refunds the $200 to where it came from (CC, writes a check to the source of the payment, etc.). I've not tried to cancel the processing of a Form 4 prior to approval in many years.
After notifying BATF, I start the paperwork to the next buyer. I've not had any problems with this method. Not sure if it is correct but it has worked for me.
Enjoy,
K2
KickStand is correct. If the physical transfer of the firearm to the buyer has not taken place, the seller (you) can just write a letter to BATF indicating the physical transfer did not take place and you want to cancel the transfer. I normally include the approved form 4 in the letter as an attachment if the transfer was approved. In time BATF refunds the $200 to where it came from (CC, writes a check to the source of the payment, etc.). I've not tried to cancel the processing of a Form 4 prior to approval in many years.
After notifying BATF, I start the paperwork to the next buyer. I've not had any problems with this method. Not sure if it is correct but it has worked for me.
Enjoy,
K2
That's quite ridiculous IMO, I've never sold a MG to someone and started the F3 or F4 without payment in hand unless the person was a friend or another dealer I'd done business with before and I knew payment would be coming. I assume you're taking less than market value since you're selling it to a dealer instead of directly to another user as he'll just be selling it on for true market after he receives it so there's no way you should send the F4 until he pays you, IMO again.
Jmacken37
Mr. Miata, UZI Talk Life Member,
Agreed. Payment up front or a sizeable deposit is standard. I just read that you guys agreed he'd pay when he received the form 4. I'd politely contact the dealer and request immediate payment. If they do not comply, I'd contact the NFA branch and cancel the form 4.
Best wishes for a smooth outcome.
Best wishes for a smooth outcome.
brenbuilds
UZI Talk Supporter
I would consider looking for another buyer, as I question the competency of your dealer. A down payment is a universally understood within the NFA community; often 50% up front, 50% upon approval. I agree, you will likely receive better offers either here or on Sturm.
After reading the replies from you and KickStand, I called ATF. ATF confirms that the approved Form 4 will be returned to me. ATF also confirms that the transfer can be voided if I return the approved Form 4 with a hand written letter explaining why I want the transfer voided. So I feel that I do have protection in the unlikely event of nonpayment. The reason I am selling to this dealer is that I bought the UZI from him several years ago and therefore he knows exactly what it is that I am selling.
I always thought one fair option was payment in full and I'll send you everything except the receiver. That way the buyer would be somewhat assured that the seller isn't using the gun in his rental business until the form clears. Its not 100% since the seller could just slap and uzi parts kit on it.
Semper Guy
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 20
Recently purchased 3 Machine guns. Had seller meet me at my dealer. Dealer took possession and put in their vault until paperwork came back in my name. I paid seller in full upon guns being handed over to my dealer. Hope this helps.
If I were selling a Machine gun, its 100% payment upfront to start the paperwork. I think this is standard. It's what I faced every time I bought one. I'd never consider starting paper work without cash in hand. And forget 50% down -- it'll just end up the buyer's wife finds out about it and the guy backs out and wants a refund.
Were these guns on a form 3 to the dealer? I thought on a form 4 transaction, the guns had to stay with the seller until the stamp is approved to either the dealer or the buyer (in an intrastate transaction)?
JoshNC
Well-known member
Or maybe up to 3 years if they predominantly work on HK.
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