OK, since I can't afford a Vector any time soon, anybody know what it legally takes to LEGALLY put the proper stock set on a Norinco thumbhole gun? I'm thinking Vector fixed buttstock, new grips, but is anything else needed?
A
A
Norinco Uzi
- Thread starter AliYahu
- Start date
David Hineline
FFL/SOT
Just like all the current imported AK stuff you would need to replace enough imported pieces with U.S. manuf. pieces to qualify to remove the thumbhole stock. It could never goto a folder.
[quote author=David_Hineline link=board=gen_uzi_talk;num=1040863191;start=0#3 date=12/25/02 at 21:53:08]Just like all the current imported AK stuff you would need to replace enough imported pieces with U.S. manuf. pieces to qualify to remove the thumbhole stock. It could never goto a folder.[/quote]
Fixed stock is fine. I'm just trying to figure out which parts need to be replaced, it doesn't have a lot of the parts AK's have. I can't replace the gas piston because there isn't one.
Oh yeah, my understanding is the Norinco guns were actually made in the 80's. Somebody sued over patent or copyright infringement, and they got stuck on the docks for a while. Well, after a while, they were refitted with thumbhole stocks, the bayo lugs cut off, some markings machined off, and refinished. Anybody know for sure?
A
Fixed stock is fine. I'm just trying to figure out which parts need to be replaced, it doesn't have a lot of the parts AK's have. I can't replace the gas piston because there isn't one.
Oh yeah, my understanding is the Norinco guns were actually made in the 80's. Somebody sued over patent or copyright infringement, and they got stuck on the docks for a while. Well, after a while, they were refitted with thumbhole stocks, the bayo lugs cut off, some markings machined off, and refinished. Anybody know for sure?
A
Dan0341
UZI Talk Life Member
As stated, do not place a folding stock on the weapon as it will be a violation of USC 922(v) - assault weapons ban. As I understand it (99.9 % sure here), you can place a detachable stock on the weapon (922(v) forbids folding stocks, but not detachable stocks)), *BUT* it must have a barrel long enough so as to ensure that the Uzi type rifle does not fall under 26 inches with the stock removed (illegal short barrel rifle). Since it is a detachable stock, the Uzi type rifle will be measured from the front of the barrel to the rear of the receiver (EVEN IF THE DETACHABLE STOCK IS MOUNTED). Don't get caught with a detachable stock on your weapon with a 16 inch barrel. You may be able to get away with this if you buy an 18 inch barrel from Quality Parts?? Call Bushmaster/Quality Parts and ask about this. I went with a folding stock - it fits this weapon fine. My brother mig welded the stock open and I repainted it (refer to pic) .
When I removed the thumbhole stock and placed the separate pistol grips and stock on the rifle, I found there was "play" between the pistol grip lower and the receiver (when you remove the thumbhole stock, this may become apparent). I used a pair of plyers to bend the tab on the pistol grip that inserts into the receiver. By bending the tab downwards, the receiver and the lower pistol grip become completely solid.
Here's what I did to comply with 922(r) : (1) I added a Quality Parts (Bushmaster) chromed barrel, (2) Group Industries pistol grip (D and D Sales), (3) Group Industries forearm (D and D Sales), (4) operating rod/recoil spring (D and D Sales), and (5) promag floorplate (or you could make your own floorplate). Before you ask, D and D Sales does not have USA Made triggers or sears.
I have an original letter from the Firearms Technology Branch signed by Ed Owen that states the Uzi Type Firearm has 15 imported parts on the rifle. My letter states that there is no hammer on the Uzi rifle. I know there is another letter out there that says the Uzi rifle possesses the hammer, but I'm going by my original letter.
Stay away from using USA Made Magazines. I've tweaked my Promag mags and could never get them to work reliably. The Promags work OK, but they weren't reliable enough for me. This is why I use the floorplates (slightly modified) to work on my IMI, South African, and Argentine Mags (I had bought 5 promags cheap at a gunshow). For another USA Made part, you could make your own wood stock. It would be simple with some basic tools.
I really liked my Norinco 320 (I sold it and now have a Vector subgun) and I've had fun working on it. It was 100% reliable. If you like to tinker, this is a fun gun.
Dan
When I removed the thumbhole stock and placed the separate pistol grips and stock on the rifle, I found there was "play" between the pistol grip lower and the receiver (when you remove the thumbhole stock, this may become apparent). I used a pair of plyers to bend the tab on the pistol grip that inserts into the receiver. By bending the tab downwards, the receiver and the lower pistol grip become completely solid.
Here's what I did to comply with 922(r) : (1) I added a Quality Parts (Bushmaster) chromed barrel, (2) Group Industries pistol grip (D and D Sales), (3) Group Industries forearm (D and D Sales), (4) operating rod/recoil spring (D and D Sales), and (5) promag floorplate (or you could make your own floorplate). Before you ask, D and D Sales does not have USA Made triggers or sears.
I have an original letter from the Firearms Technology Branch signed by Ed Owen that states the Uzi Type Firearm has 15 imported parts on the rifle. My letter states that there is no hammer on the Uzi rifle. I know there is another letter out there that says the Uzi rifle possesses the hammer, but I'm going by my original letter.
Stay away from using USA Made Magazines. I've tweaked my Promag mags and could never get them to work reliably. The Promags work OK, but they weren't reliable enough for me. This is why I use the floorplates (slightly modified) to work on my IMI, South African, and Argentine Mags (I had bought 5 promags cheap at a gunshow). For another USA Made part, you could make your own wood stock. It would be simple with some basic tools.
I really liked my Norinco 320 (I sold it and now have a Vector subgun) and I've had fun working on it. It was 100% reliable. If you like to tinker, this is a fun gun.
Dan
Paul556
UZI Talk Supporter
Yes it can be done! I did it. Here is my Norinco.
The barrel is a dummy. The real one is above. Call D&D or Vector. The parts I changed are pistol grips, fore grips, recoil spring (op-rod), and used a USA magazine. You can also change the barrel or butt stock if you want to use a better mag tube. If you do that you still have to use the US made followers and floor plates. The guys at D&D were very helpful. Talk to them and ask them any questions you may have.
Paul
The barrel is a dummy. The real one is above. Call D&D or Vector. The parts I changed are pistol grips, fore grips, recoil spring (op-rod), and used a USA magazine. You can also change the barrel or butt stock if you want to use a better mag tube. If you do that you still have to use the US made followers and floor plates. The guys at D&D were very helpful. Talk to them and ask them any questions you may have.
Paul
Dan0341
UZI Talk Life Member
Only two issues I had with my Norinco Uzi: (1) loose pistol grip, but that was easily fixed in about 10 minutes (see my post above for explanation, (2) the feed ramp was parkerized and caused some failures to feed. I used steel wool to make the feed ramp shiny and slick and only took about 20 minutes. Once those two problems were fixed, it ran 100%. Before I sold it, I ran about 2,500 rounds through the rifle.
It was surprising how accurate it was. The last time I shot it, I was consistently hitting pumpkins at about 100 yards with it. The other guys on the firing line, at Piedmont Alabama MG shoot, were extremely surprised with the accuracy. The only reason I sold it was to buy a Vector Subgun (finally moved to a state where I could own one). People sometimes trash the Norincos for various reasons, but in my opinion, with a little attention to detail they're great rifles.
Dan
It was surprising how accurate it was. The last time I shot it, I was consistently hitting pumpkins at about 100 yards with it. The other guys on the firing line, at Piedmont Alabama MG shoot, were extremely surprised with the accuracy. The only reason I sold it was to buy a Vector Subgun (finally moved to a state where I could own one). People sometimes trash the Norincos for various reasons, but in my opinion, with a little attention to detail they're great rifles.
Dan
Paul556
UZI Talk Supporter
The sides of my receiver are too short. This caused the bolt to rub the top cover. I chucked the bolt up on a surface grinder and shaved 0.010" off the top and it ran great. I too am in the process of dumping mine to make room in the safe for a Vector SMG.
Paul
Paul
If anyone is looking for a Norinco Uzi, there was a guy named Mark (mendinc@comcast.net) that posted something on Sturmgewehr.com about a month ago saying that he knew a dealer with 60 of them new in the box. Drop him an email if you're looking.
[quote author=Dan0341 link=board=gen_uzi_talk;num=1040863191;start=0#6 date=12/26/02 at 11:59:23]
I have an original letter from the Firearms Technology Branch signed by Ed Owen that states the Uzi Type Firearm has 15 imported parts on the rifle. My letter states that there is no hammer on the Uzi rifle. I know there is another letter out there that says the Uzi rifle possesses the hammer, but I'm going by my original letter. [/quote]
Would you mind posting the text of the letter? I'm trying to determine which parts need to be replaced on a Norinco, or if it would just be cheaper to buy a post-ban Vector (unless they decide to charge the Mini price for them, too
). And, any idea what they might consider to be the hammer?
Thanks,
A
I have an original letter from the Firearms Technology Branch signed by Ed Owen that states the Uzi Type Firearm has 15 imported parts on the rifle. My letter states that there is no hammer on the Uzi rifle. I know there is another letter out there that says the Uzi rifle possesses the hammer, but I'm going by my original letter. [/quote]
Would you mind posting the text of the letter? I'm trying to determine which parts need to be replaced on a Norinco, or if it would just be cheaper to buy a post-ban Vector (unless they decide to charge the Mini price for them, too
). And, any idea what they might consider to be the hammer?Thanks,
A
Dan0341
UZI Talk Life Member
A,
the hammer is considered the striker assembly. I'm currently out of town for the holidays and won't be able to scan the letter concerning the imported parts until the first week of the year. When I get home, I'll post it here for everyone to see. But I do have a scanned/saved letter that addresses section 922v. Refer below for the letter:
the hammer is considered the striker assembly. I'm currently out of town for the holidays and won't be able to scan the letter concerning the imported parts until the first week of the year. When I get home, I'll post it here for everyone to see. But I do have a scanned/saved letter that addresses section 922v. Refer below for the letter:
I also have a Norinco 320. I took a folding stock and welded it in the open position. It now looks like my brother-in-laws IMI. US part are barrel, hand guards, grips, and mag. I got the gun used for $300 about 8 months ago. Total with US parts less the $500.
Steve
Steve
Dan0341
UZI Talk Life Member
Since the scan doesn't show the lined out parts clearly, I just wanted to add that the following parts from the list below are not found on the Norinco 320:
3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 16
3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 16
I own 2 Norinco 320's. What parts interchange with the UZI's? I don't think the barrels interchange. Also were the Norinco receivers made by UZI? I ask this because something was ground off the rear of the receiver on both of my guns. It looked like a star of David. Thanks
Dan0341
UZI Talk Life Member
T-Man,
what you're looking at is not the star of David - it's a symbol/design that was part of the original markings. From what I've heard from multiple people (have not verified this myself), the part that is "ground off" (in the star) stated 'Officer's Nine.'
This is what I've heard: The Norinco 320s were originally configured, before the 1989 import ban, with a folding stock and had the 'Officer's Nine' markings. If you look at a manual with the Norinco 320, it will show it having a folding stock. When the 1989 ban came into effect, the Norinco 320s were not allowed to be imported into the USA. To make them legal for import, the folding stocks were replaced with thumbhole stocks and the 'Officer's Nine' was ground off. I've heard (but again, not confirmed) that there are some preban 'Officer's Nine' in the country.
As far as parts interchanging, I'm not sure. My 'guess' is that an IMI model B bolt, striker assembly, recoil spring/guide rod, top cover, and disconnector would interchange with the Norinco. Probably other parts as well, but I've never tried this.
Dan
what you're looking at is not the star of David - it's a symbol/design that was part of the original markings. From what I've heard from multiple people (have not verified this myself), the part that is "ground off" (in the star) stated 'Officer's Nine.'
This is what I've heard: The Norinco 320s were originally configured, before the 1989 import ban, with a folding stock and had the 'Officer's Nine' markings. If you look at a manual with the Norinco 320, it will show it having a folding stock. When the 1989 ban came into effect, the Norinco 320s were not allowed to be imported into the USA. To make them legal for import, the folding stocks were replaced with thumbhole stocks and the 'Officer's Nine' was ground off. I've heard (but again, not confirmed) that there are some preban 'Officer's Nine' in the country.
As far as parts interchanging, I'm not sure. My 'guess' is that an IMI model B bolt, striker assembly, recoil spring/guide rod, top cover, and disconnector would interchange with the Norinco. Probably other parts as well, but I've never tried this.
Dan
That's a good question. I'm not sure about Uzi parts but I've seen this issue with post ban HK guns and some of the US made replacement parts were unmarked and pretty much indistinguishable from the original. I'd hate it to come down to my word against the ATF. Not a good chance of winning that one. At a minimum you should keep some sort of documentation proving you purchased the US made parts.
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