New receiver option...Ikon?
- Thread starter lomalinda
- Start date
AresShrike
UZI Talk Life Member
I just talked, for nearly an hour, to Suliban Beaza, owner of Ikon.
I'm told, they are made from "scratch", not somebody else's 80% receivers.
I gotta fly now, I'll tell you more later.
I'm told, they are made from "scratch", not somebody else's 80% receivers.
I gotta fly now, I'll tell you more later.
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AresShrike
UZI Talk Life Member
I believe there may be a considerable "update" to the price, in order to get the product in peoples hands.
I'll be sending one, for a review, not by me, but - from one, or more, very respected builders that we all know (and love), so that should be coming up here, "soon".
I'll be sending one, for a review, not by me, but - from one, or more, very respected builders that we all know (and love), so that should be coming up here, "soon".
AleksanderDavid
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2015
- Messages
- 59
but then again the only other option for that type of selector is the CNC warrior, if these receivers are good like the tortorts they'll be giving CNC Warrior a run for their money. especially with the not so great quality rep as of late as i should not have to give them part of a demilled receiver to help align holes for the stock pin or have the problem with the bolt carrier bouncing out of place and where the top cover sits to be out of spec so the dust cover doesn't seat like it is supposed to. (i mean no offense but this has just been my experience with the 2 receivers i have bought.)
Ugh!
Well-known member
What are your thoughts on it?
AresShrike
UZI Talk Life Member
My thoughts.....I "think" I'll send it to Jeff, to get some "Ironclad" - Good as Gold - fact based - opinion of it, because, (I know, this is shocking!!) I'm no expert!! (Don't tell the other guys here!)
AND....I don't want to look like an A-Hole, if I give my opinion on something, and it comes out to be completely wrong, so...…...I'll send it to Jeff, as soon as possible.
AND....I don't want to look like an A-Hole, if I give my opinion on something, and it comes out to be completely wrong, so...…...I'll send it to Jeff, as soon as possible.
Here ya go.... in stock as of this writing:
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/micro-galil-ikon-g223-gry
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/micro-galil-ikon-g223-gry
AresShrike
UZI Talk Life Member
No, the ATI and the IKON are different receivers.
At least that's what they say...
(But, it is odd, that they both came out with the exact same product, at virtually, the exact same time, and they are practically on top of one another, geographically......just coincidence, I'm sure)
At least that's what they say...
(But, it is odd, that they both came out with the exact same product, at virtually, the exact same time, and they are practically on top of one another, geographically......just coincidence, I'm sure)
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AresShrike
UZI Talk Life Member
Yes, there's an update on the Ikon Galil receivers.
The "production" receiver I got, turns out to be a "prototype", after Jeff took considerable time, to check it out.
Jeff just finished his review of that receiver, like, yesterday.
It had a lot of issues, but, which, for a first try, is not abnormal, and nothing to be ashamed of.
But, as Atlantic Firearms is now selling them, on complete guns, I guess those issues have already been fixed....
So, we're, or I should say Jeff now, is waiting on a new, improved, "production" receiver, to re-review.
Stay tuned.....
The "production" receiver I got, turns out to be a "prototype", after Jeff took considerable time, to check it out.
Jeff just finished his review of that receiver, like, yesterday.
It had a lot of issues, but, which, for a first try, is not abnormal, and nothing to be ashamed of.
But, as Atlantic Firearms is now selling them, on complete guns, I guess those issues have already been fixed....
So, we're, or I should say Jeff now, is waiting on a new, improved, "production" receiver, to re-review.
Stay tuned.....
Man you know for someone to send a "prototype" to be tested and built on that is total trash is BS. The receivers are unproven, have Zero track record, Zero independent testing records. I say steer clear to those who know better. I asked some very Important questions over on Akfiles with Zero response and Im not surprised.
AresShrike…...Man just call it as you see it man. If you got more to say then please say it.
I got no beef with IKON but all we need is some shotty receivers gumming up the market and boards again. I want to see some testing and shots of the "Production" or "Finished" receivers....Sending a receiver nto be looked at and built on and then saying its a prototype is just absolute BS and Im not buying into it..
AresShrike…...Man just call it as you see it man. If you got more to say then please say it.
I got no beef with IKON but all we need is some shotty receivers gumming up the market and boards again. I want to see some testing and shots of the "Production" or "Finished" receivers....Sending a receiver nto be looked at and built on and then saying its a prototype is just absolute BS and Im not buying into it..
AresShrike
UZI Talk Life Member
mullicrk - "....AresShrike…...Man just call it as you see it man. If you got more to say then please say it. ….."
Suliban Beaza, Mr. Ikon, should, as I recommended to him, get on both AK-Files, and Uzi-Talk, in order to address these questions, himself.
I was initially given an Ikon Galil receiver, said to be a "production" receiver, to have tested, so as to give Suliban feedback, from a top notch, expert builder, as to any problems these new receivers may have.
I said to Suliban, the results of the review, would be told to him, before production continued, so he could "get it right" prior to production. (paraphrased conversation)
However, now that I've seen that production has commenced, and that people now can/will buy these, "as is", I do feel compelled to "speak the truth", and am justified now, as I did keep my word to Suliban, that he's have a chance to fix the issues, prior to production.
Obviously, he'd send his most recent, best example for this testing, and obviously too, if my "production" receiver had that many issues, it'd automatically become a "prototype", and I do feel there's nothing wrong with that, per say, but, the purpose of the "enlightening" to Ikon, was to prevent production of a crap receiver.
Now, production has commenced, so...…
Obviously too, I'm not that expert builder, so I gave it to Jeff Miller, to have him check it out.
Naturally, it took Jeff a while to get around to it, as he's pretty busy.
A few days ago, he (Jeff) got back to me, with some "early" results, but said he'd really need to try to build on it, to have a really complete opinion of it.
The results of the testing, measuring, etc., were that the receiver needed a whole lot of work, to be a workable/buildable receiver.
I hate to be to specific, but, I do feel I did my part in not saying shit, until Ikon had a chance to implement the changes - prior to production.
The heat treat, done "in house", should have been done by a professional heat treat house, as the Rockwell numbers were sky high, like RC-56, way, way to hard, brittle, not allowing for any "flex" which, believe it or not, even milled receivers need.
A simple straight edge showed, the receiver wasn't straight. ( I guess that "custom design insert to help prevent warping while in the oven", didn't work worth a shit)
The bolt wouldn't lock up in the receiver.
The open space in the receiver rear, where the carrier is inserted, was to large, and would allow the carrier to jump out.
The receiver rails were to thin, if you go by the IMI spec.
There was a lot more, really bad machine work, mag well a bit to big, sloppy fit, I don't even remember all the problems.
I even suggested to Suliban, that he take back any Atlantic Firearms guns, to fix any receiver issues, but he didn't like that idea.
There, I said it.
Jeff, ever the Gentleman that he truly is, didn't want to say shit, as he feels it was a "prototype" receiver, and he's waiting on a "production" receiver to give his final opinion, but I'd call it a prototype too, if it was THAT fucked up.
Ikon had the opportunity to "fix" any problems with the receivers, prior to production, with nothing said publicly, but now that production is underway, I'm compelled to speak, sorry Suliban, I really am.
Very nice guy, Suliban is, but, he REALLY should have been a little more patient in waiting for Jeff's review of that receiver, and he could have benefitted greatly.
That's not to say, he can't now, implement those "fixes", and market an excellent receiver.
He should do just that, there'd be no shame in fixing it, and selling a great receiver.
Jeff is more that willing to give even more of his personal time, to do Suliban a favor, and check out another "production" receiver, so Ikon can produce a great receiver.
I didn't want to say shit, because I felt very bad for Suliban, a real nice guy, trying to get a "good" product to market, but it's gone into production now, so I had to say something.
Sorry brother.
Suliban Beaza, Mr. Ikon, should, as I recommended to him, get on both AK-Files, and Uzi-Talk, in order to address these questions, himself.
I was initially given an Ikon Galil receiver, said to be a "production" receiver, to have tested, so as to give Suliban feedback, from a top notch, expert builder, as to any problems these new receivers may have.
I said to Suliban, the results of the review, would be told to him, before production continued, so he could "get it right" prior to production. (paraphrased conversation)
However, now that I've seen that production has commenced, and that people now can/will buy these, "as is", I do feel compelled to "speak the truth", and am justified now, as I did keep my word to Suliban, that he's have a chance to fix the issues, prior to production.
Obviously, he'd send his most recent, best example for this testing, and obviously too, if my "production" receiver had that many issues, it'd automatically become a "prototype", and I do feel there's nothing wrong with that, per say, but, the purpose of the "enlightening" to Ikon, was to prevent production of a crap receiver.
Now, production has commenced, so...…
Obviously too, I'm not that expert builder, so I gave it to Jeff Miller, to have him check it out.
Naturally, it took Jeff a while to get around to it, as he's pretty busy.
A few days ago, he (Jeff) got back to me, with some "early" results, but said he'd really need to try to build on it, to have a really complete opinion of it.
The results of the testing, measuring, etc., were that the receiver needed a whole lot of work, to be a workable/buildable receiver.
I hate to be to specific, but, I do feel I did my part in not saying shit, until Ikon had a chance to implement the changes - prior to production.
The heat treat, done "in house", should have been done by a professional heat treat house, as the Rockwell numbers were sky high, like RC-56, way, way to hard, brittle, not allowing for any "flex" which, believe it or not, even milled receivers need.
A simple straight edge showed, the receiver wasn't straight. ( I guess that "custom design insert to help prevent warping while in the oven", didn't work worth a shit)
The bolt wouldn't lock up in the receiver.
The open space in the receiver rear, where the carrier is inserted, was to large, and would allow the carrier to jump out.
The receiver rails were to thin, if you go by the IMI spec.
There was a lot more, really bad machine work, mag well a bit to big, sloppy fit, I don't even remember all the problems.
I even suggested to Suliban, that he take back any Atlantic Firearms guns, to fix any receiver issues, but he didn't like that idea.
There, I said it.
Jeff, ever the Gentleman that he truly is, didn't want to say shit, as he feels it was a "prototype" receiver, and he's waiting on a "production" receiver to give his final opinion, but I'd call it a prototype too, if it was THAT fucked up.
Ikon had the opportunity to "fix" any problems with the receivers, prior to production, with nothing said publicly, but now that production is underway, I'm compelled to speak, sorry Suliban, I really am.
Very nice guy, Suliban is, but, he REALLY should have been a little more patient in waiting for Jeff's review of that receiver, and he could have benefitted greatly.
That's not to say, he can't now, implement those "fixes", and market an excellent receiver.
He should do just that, there'd be no shame in fixing it, and selling a great receiver.
Jeff is more that willing to give even more of his personal time, to do Suliban a favor, and check out another "production" receiver, so Ikon can produce a great receiver.
I didn't want to say shit, because I felt very bad for Suliban, a real nice guy, trying to get a "good" product to market, but it's gone into production now, so I had to say something.
Sorry brother.
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Ares and Jeff:
Thank you both for delivering the goods on this most recent offering in the galil market. I briefly considered the Atlantic micro galil using this receiever. Glad I didn't proceed.
Seems like the best approach is either CNC or Tortort receiver and Hillbilly himself to make sure shit gets done correctly.
And hats of to this forum in general. There isn't a finer group of men around to share information on this platform. Appreciate all who contribute.
Thank you both for delivering the goods on this most recent offering in the galil market. I briefly considered the Atlantic micro galil using this receiever. Glad I didn't proceed.
Seems like the best approach is either CNC or Tortort receiver and Hillbilly himself to make sure shit gets done correctly.
And hats of to this forum in general. There isn't a finer group of men around to share information on this platform. Appreciate all who contribute.
AresShrike
UZI Talk Life Member
You know, that just goes to show you, people love to complain about the cost, of a $500 or $600 milled Galil receiver, but when you consider the cost of the machinery and material, the machine time it takes to mill one out, and various other related costs, like proper heat treating, you start to realize, or should realize, that $500 doesn't really leave much of a profit margin at all.
Even with the "do it yourself" heat treating, and other probable cost cutting measures, the other guys receivers still come in at around the same price, but far less quality.
Everybody (well, a lot of people anyway) was on board for the cheapest possible Galil receiver, which is by far, the single most important part of the Galil (so is the barrel, yes), but they'll gladly go for the cheapest one they can find, and believe it's as good, or nearly as good. (Hey, how bad can it be, right? It's a milled 4140 receiver, said to be heat treated properly...…)
Your not gonna see, ever, a quality Galil for $1000, not unless you've got the extreme skills, and excellent machinery, to build it yourself.
Somebody said, Jeff builds "weren't cheap", but guess what, his build prices are actually average, and his build quality is second to none.
I understand wanting a relatively "cheap" version, of an expensive gun, just to have an example of that type.
I'd really like to get an HK-93, but I don't want to spend $3000 or so, to get one, so I'd probably be happy (enough), with a Vector clone.
I'd like to get a FN-FAL, but, again, don't want to spend that much on it, so, I'd probably be happy, enough, with a DSA FAL.
But, I'm really a Galil guy, since 1989, and, for me, as to the Galil, I wouldn't settle for anything less than the very best, it's my favorite "thing", so I just wouldn't be happy, at all, saving a few bucks, and not being totally overjoyed, with my Galils quality.
And, after all things considered, I sold a few original Action Arms Galils, to have Jeff build me some of his Galils, from very expensive individually sourced parts, with pretty expensive barrels, because I wanted the very best Galil possible.
I do understand that whole "good enough" thing, but, if it's a Galil we're talkin' about, no-no, only the very best will do.
Even with the "do it yourself" heat treating, and other probable cost cutting measures, the other guys receivers still come in at around the same price, but far less quality.
Everybody (well, a lot of people anyway) was on board for the cheapest possible Galil receiver, which is by far, the single most important part of the Galil (so is the barrel, yes), but they'll gladly go for the cheapest one they can find, and believe it's as good, or nearly as good. (Hey, how bad can it be, right? It's a milled 4140 receiver, said to be heat treated properly...…)
Your not gonna see, ever, a quality Galil for $1000, not unless you've got the extreme skills, and excellent machinery, to build it yourself.
Somebody said, Jeff builds "weren't cheap", but guess what, his build prices are actually average, and his build quality is second to none.
I understand wanting a relatively "cheap" version, of an expensive gun, just to have an example of that type.
I'd really like to get an HK-93, but I don't want to spend $3000 or so, to get one, so I'd probably be happy (enough), with a Vector clone.
I'd like to get a FN-FAL, but, again, don't want to spend that much on it, so, I'd probably be happy, enough, with a DSA FAL.
But, I'm really a Galil guy, since 1989, and, for me, as to the Galil, I wouldn't settle for anything less than the very best, it's my favorite "thing", so I just wouldn't be happy, at all, saving a few bucks, and not being totally overjoyed, with my Galils quality.
And, after all things considered, I sold a few original Action Arms Galils, to have Jeff build me some of his Galils, from very expensive individually sourced parts, with pretty expensive barrels, because I wanted the very best Galil possible.
I do understand that whole "good enough" thing, but, if it's a Galil we're talkin' about, no-no, only the very best will do.
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