New Here looking for first SMG

[Slowmo]

Dude said he's "always wanted an UZI".
If he would have wrote that he was looking for a "do-it-all lego MG on a budget", then the MAC would have been a good recommendation, but a MAC isn't an UZI, it's just a lead slinging bullet hose.

Saying the MAC is “just a lead slinging bullet hose” isn’t really giving it the credit it deserves, especially in a world with Lage uppers available.

That said, if you want an Uzi, get an Uzi.

They both have legitimate pros and cons.

 

[CQB762]

Thanks again guys for all the suggestions. I have been looking at several dealers and it seems to me that Ruben’s and OTB have several good options. I’m now leaning towards a IMI RR conversion. It seems I can save a few K over the Vectors so that helps.

I will now start the process of raising some funds. I’ll probably cut the cord with my AK collection, and the ammo that has gone up more than the guns themselves.

I will also list for sale here a few extra semi parts that I have had on hand for years, since by early Spring I will have a SMG😀

 

[CQB762]

I should also add that I’m interested in the ones that have the blocking bar removed

 

[CQB762]

https://dealernfa.com/shop/imi-uzi-converted-by-group-industries-excellent-45sa000769/ this one looks especially interesting…

I also like this one because it looks like the restrictor ring might have been shaved down.

For Sale: IMI, 9mm, UZI, RR, Frankford Arsenal #SA25059FA | DealerNFA

IMI Uzi, 9mm, Registered Receiver, by Frankford Arsenal, Ft Lauderdale, FL in Excellent Condition

dealernfa.com

 

[gorillastomp]

That is a nice looking one. However that looks like a normal size barrel ring. It could possibly be shaved. Ruben would know just call and ask him.

 

[Slowmo]

Thanks again guys for all the suggestions. I have been looking at several dealers and it seems to me that Ruben’s and OTB have several good options. I’m now leaning towards a IMI RR conversion. It seems I can save a few K over the Vectors so that helps.

I will now start the process of raising some funds. I’ll probably cut the cord with my AK collection, and the ammo that has gone up more than the guns themselves.

I will also list for sale here a few extra semi parts that I have had on hand for years, since by early Spring I will have a SMG😀

The reason Ruben and OTB have so many options is that their prices are extremely high, so those guns sit there for very long periods of time. Sign up to get the weekly Thursday email from Midwest Tactical and start watching the sale ads on Sturmgewehr (the sister site to Uzi Talk, link is at the bottom of the page). There are much better deals out there.

 

[KickStand]

The reason Ruben and OTB have so many options is that their prices are extremely high, so those guns sit there for very long periods of time. Sign up to get the weekly Thursday email from Midwest Tactical and start watching the sale ads on Sturmgewehr (the sister site to Uzi Talk, link is at the bottom of the page). There are much better deals out there.

Yep, just get on Sturm.

 

[Eric]

I also do not want to get into a Ford vs. Chevy argument. I am aware of the common consensus expressed many times on this website that a Registered Receiver IMI conversion is the most desirable FA Uzi. I understand this is because the Group Industry/Vector receivers (although generally very good) are at some level out of spec. My three Vectors have always functioned flawlessly (even with the Vector .22 conversion kit) but I can attest to the receivers being slightly out of spec in the area of the trunnion because some aftermarket foregrips and rail attachments like the F.A.B. Defense Tri-Barrel Rail for Uzi haven’t fit perfectly without some filing or minor Dremel tool work. I understand that argument about out of spec receivers. So…

In earlier years, IMIs did cost more than Vectors, but can anybody explain to me why it is that if I look on Ruben’s website today (10-21-24), the prices for the Vectors are significantly higher than the IMIs? On the website today, the two Vectors are $23,295 (neither are advertised as new in box) but all six of the IMI RR conversions are [only] $19,995.

M10, M11, Uzi, Sten, Sterling, and Smith & Wesson 76 | DealerNFA

dealernfa.com

Could it be related to the fact that each of the six IMI guns were converted by different companies, namely, Group Industries, RPB, Sir Sydney, Frankford Arsenal, NV Custom, and HT Armory? Is it possible that the price difference is because if you buy an IMI, it’s a crap shoot on whether or not the conversion was as good or consistent as the Vectors which were all manufactured as full auto at the outset? I’m not saying it’s so. I’m just asking the question because that $3,300 price premium for the Vectors seems pretty significant to me.

 

[AKarms]

https://dealernfa.com/shop/imi-uzi-converted-by-group-industries-excellent-45sa000769/ this one looks especially interesting…

I also like this one because it looks like the restrictor ring might have been shaved down.

For Sale: IMI, 9mm, UZI, RR, Frankford Arsenal #SA25059FA | DealerNFA

IMI Uzi, 9mm, Registered Receiver, by Frankford Arsenal, Ft Lauderdale, FL in Excellent Condition

dealernfa.com

If you end up getting an rr with a barrel ring, I replace those, it’s an easy swap to a milled smg ramp

 

[Slowmo]

I also do not want to get into a Ford vs. Chevy argument. I am aware of the common consensus expressed many times on this website that a Registered Receiver IMI conversion is the most desirable FA Uzi. I understand this is because the Group Industry/Vector receivers (although generally very good) are at some level out of spec. My three Vectors have always functioned flawlessly (even with the Vector .22 conversion kit) but I can attest to the receivers being slightly out of spec in the area of the trunnion because some aftermarket foregrips and rail attachments like the F.A.B. Defense Tri-Barrel Rail for Uzi haven’t fit perfectly without some filing or minor Dremel tool work. I understand that argument about out of spec receivers. So…

In earlier years, IMIs did cost more than Vectors, but can anybody explain to me why it is that if I look on Ruben’s website today (10-21-24), the prices for the Vectors are significantly higher than the IMIs? On the website today, the two Vectors are $23,295 (neither are advertised as new in box) but all six of the IMI RR conversions are [only] $19,995.

M10, M11, Uzi, Sten, Sterling, and Smith & Wesson 76 | DealerNFA

dealernfa.com

Could it be related to the fact that each of the six IMI guns were converted by different companies, namely, Group Industries, RPB, Sir Sydney, Frankford Arsenal, NV Custom, and HT Armory? Is it possible that the price difference is because if you buy an IMI, it’s a crap shoot on whether or not the conversion was as good or consistent as the Vectors which were all manufactured as full auto at the outset? I’m not saying it’s so. I’m just asking the question because that $3,300 price premium for the Vectors seems pretty significant to me.

I don’t believe the concern is generally so much over the quality of the conversion as the completeness of the conversion. Most IMIs floating around were not full conversions, so if that is important to a buyer, they know they will have to buy it, put more money into it, and be without it for some period of time while a smith has the gun. That lowers the price some. I’d expect a full conversion IMI to cost more than a Vector/Group. A factory IMI (pretty rare) will be worth the most.

Some buyers who don’t have the time or interest to come up to speed on the IMIs may prefer the Vectors since they offer a simpler purchasing process (at least on paper) as factory SMGs.

Regarding the Vectors, yes, some of the concern is the out-of-spec receivers, but they also anecdotally seem to have more problems with broken welds that have to be repaired as well.

Random other point: If you’re not a purist, IMO the IMI Model B has better sights than a Model A or Group/Vector.

 

[amphibian]

I wrote the conversion article on here a long time ago. Since then I have heard of some other interesting viewpoints on the conversions. I think member 'K2' on here mentioned about someone having a RR UZI where they had a squib or something and it buldged the barrel inside the trunion area. So the trunion was brought to SMG spec AFTER it was damaged, giving it a 'second' chance.
I think Roverdave also mentioned that Uziel Gal also like the restrictor ring as it gave the barrel more support.

All that said, I have always gone for a full conversion just out of convenience for interchangeability with factory SMG bolts and barrels but I wouldn't pass up a RR that wasn't brought to full spec.
The picture below is seen in the conversion article and is of 3 RR's I had at one time. The middle one was a Fleming conversion that I sold to one of my friends that still has it and it was relieved so you could drop in an unmodified SMG bolt. I don't know if Fleming did that work or someone else.

 

[RoverDave]

In earlier years, IMIs did cost more than Vectors, but can anybody explain to me why it is that if I look on Ruben’s website today (10-21-24), the prices for the Vectors are significantly higher than the IMIs? On the website today, the two Vectors are $23,295 (neither are advertised as new in box) but all six of the IMI RR conversions are [only] $19,995.

Could it be related to the fact that each of the six IMI guns were converted by different companies, namely, Group Industries, RPB, Sir Sydney, Frankford Arsenal, NV Custom, and HT Armory? Is it possible that the price difference is because if you buy an IMI, it’s a crap shoot on whether or not the conversion was as good or consistent as the Vectors which were all manufactured as full auto at the outset? I’m not saying it’s so. I’m just asking the question because that $3,300 price premium for the Vectors seems pretty significant to me.

For as long as I can remember, the Vectors have always been higher priced than the IMI conversions. I've always considered that to be backwards because I consider a fully converted registered receiver IMI to be the better gun. Why are the Vectors higher priced? People argue that they are more desirable because they were made as full auto from the start. That's true, but is an out of spec full auto preferable to an in spec conversion gun? Not to me. You can look at a conversion gun and easily see which conversion steps were done and which were not. If you look at a Vector, you have no idea if the spec issues have been dealt with or not. And if they have, using the gun can generate more problems. (Ralph has explained that use heats up the trunnion and can release stresses that can cause additional warping.) The other thing people think about the Vectors is that the heat treated receivers make them last longer. Maybe that's true, but no one is going to wear out the receiver on their IMI gun. And the heat treatment adds to the alignment problems with the Vectors.

In the end, it's an academic argument. Most guns work fine (IMI or Vector). Any Vectors that have alignment issues can be fixed. IMI conversion guns can be used as is or additional conversion steps can be done (other than removing the blocking bar) if you want better parts compatibility. If the guns are essentially equal in terms of usability, why pay more for a Vector? It's really weird that a clone would demand more money than the real deal.

 

[Quicksand]

For as long as I can remember, the Vectors have always been higher priced than the IMI conversions. I've always considered that to be backwards because I consider a fully converted registered receiver IMI to be the better gun. Why are the Vectors higher priced? People argue that they are more desirable because they were made as full auto from the start. That's true, but is an out of spec full auto preferable to an in spec conversion gun? Not to me. You can look at a conversion gun and easily see which conversion steps were done and which were not. If you look at a Vector, you have no idea if the spec issues have been dealt with or not. And if they have, using the gun can generate more problems. (Ralph has explained that use heats up the trunnion and can release stresses that can cause additional warping.) The other thing people think about the Vectors is that the heat treated receivers make them last longer. Maybe that's true, but no one is going to wear out the receiver on their IMI gun. And the heat treatment adds to the alignment problems with the Vectors.

In the end, it's an academic argument. Most guns work fine (IMI or Vector). Any Vectors that have alignment issues can be fixed. IMI conversion guns can be used as is or additional conversion steps can be done (other than removing the blocking bar) if you want better parts compatibility. If the guns are essentially equal in terms of usability, why pay more for a Vector? It's really weird that a clone would demand more money than the real deal.

Ive actually experienced the opposite this past year but primarily in regards to fully smg converted IMI guns…I was in the market for a while, primarily looking for a fully converted gun but the price point for the few I tracked down was generally quite higher than a vector. I settled for a semi converted rr and had it completed by a reputable smith.