macjac vs speed cube

[agriebel]

I have a video on YouTube. Comparing lage upper with and without speed cube and with stock upper with and without speed cube. I have a rof shot timer now so I can get real rof numbers. I probably need to do the testing again, but it's something to give you an idea what the speed cube is capable of. [video]http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=4ozmbjvkm&reload=3#/profile?user=rgvwheeler&v=qsfQZ7c1Y_E&view=videos[/video]

I am having a problem viewing this video...anybody else have a problem?

 

[Vegas SMG]

I am having a problem viewing this video...anybody else have a problem?

Yeah, it's a bad link. I found this one on rgvwheeler's YouTube channel so maybe it's the one ?

rgvwheeler; I'd love to see your PACT timed ROF numbers of the OEM M11/9.
Here's a post I made almost 6 years ago on ROF numbers. My original upper was screaming fast.

I selected several brands of ammo to see first hand what their ROF would yield with the Lage MAX-11 slowfire upper. I started with a beautiful 75 degree spring day in the desert with a clean and lubricated M11/9, using a single magazine for the entire test. This magazine is an aftermarket metal one I purchased from CDNN and was loaded with 25 rounds of each ammo I tested. I have other brands and bullet weights on hand I've yet to test, and I will post those results when I have an opportunity to run that ammo with the PACT MKIV XP timer. This is about as non-scientific a test as you can get, and is merely my assessment of various 9mm ammunition's performance in the M11/9 with the MAX-11 based on my very limited experience. This in no way constitutes an endorsement for any of the ammo used in this test. As always, YMMV.

FNM 147 grain (subsonic) ROF = 622 rpm

Sellier & Belliot 115 grain ROF = 621 rpm

Speer Lawman 115 grain ROF = 612 rpm

Winchester 147 grain JHP ROF = 615 rpm

Federal American Eagle 115 grain ROF = 632 rpm

Remington 115 grain JHP ROF = 613

Sampson / IMI blue tip 158 grain (subsonic) ROF = 632

**Hirtenberger 115 grain +P+ ROF = 598
This had to be the suprise of the day! Some people had told me this ammo was HOT, while others said it seemed "normal".

Armscor 124 grain ROF = DNF
We couldn't get more than two rounds to fire and it was usually just the first shot. Very underpowered ammo that barely cycled the bolt on the MAX-11 upper turning it into a semi auto gun.

WWB MAX-11 & MAC JACK 115 grain ROF = 787
Nice way to speed it up....

WWB stock M11/9 115 grain ROF = 1484

WWB stock M/11 & MAC JACK 115 grain ROF = 1856
Total waste of ammo and a real handful of fun!


*Winchester White Box 115 grain ROF = 609 rpm*

* I'd previously tested the 100 round Winchester White Box, (WWB), bulk pack and got a ROF of 610. I re-tested again just to ensure my baseline ROF was holding constant.

** After considerable back channel dialog with two people I highly respect as being much more knowledgeable than myself, we feel the slower ROF is almost certainly due to the longer dwell time of the bolt being forced further back by this hotter ammo. However, at no time did the Lage bolt ever contact the rear buffer! Even though the MAX-11 slowfire utilizes 4140 steel for the barrel as opposed to softer 1018 steel found in many after market M11 barrels, use Hirtenberger at your own risk. I did so as part of an ongoing ROF test and you risk damage or serious injury to yourself and your gun should you decide to use Hirtenberger +P+ ammo in any MAC type weapon, especially a stock gun or one with an aftermarket barrel. Please contact any upper receiver manufacturer for their specific recomendations PRIOR to using this high pressure ammo.

 

[shawnr1]

Here's is a video with a Macjack installed in my Max-11DF with standard bolt.

Also look here: Lage Video Page:MAX-11 Speedbolt testing

 

[agriebel]

Nice

 

[Shattered]

rgvwheeler; I'd love to see your PACT timed ROF numbers of the OEM M11/9.

Speakin' of PACT timers... are the original timers still available that measure ROF? The new ones don't do ROF, do they?

 

[Vegas SMG]

Speakin' of PACT timers... are the original timers still available that measure ROF? The new ones don't do ROF, do they?

I own the PACT MKIV~XP and it's still being sold. It has more features than I'll ever use, but my curious nature nudged me into buying mine just to check the ROF on various title 2 guns. It may not be worth the price of admission for many folks, but I enjoy knowing what the true numbers are with various uppers and ammo.
http://www.pact.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=74

I'm still curious what ROF other M11/9 owners get with their OEM uppers. Did you see my 1484 RPM ROF with my OEM upper?! People throw around 1100, 1200, 1300 but I wasn't prepared for almost 1500 RPM.

 

[Rebel Rifle Ordnance]

Just for S&G's, has anyone ever modified a speed cube or macjack for an M11A1? Would the mag be able to keep up with such a ROF?

 

[agriebel]

Can you even use a speed cube with an internal gas block?

 

[Rebel Rifle Ordnance]

Can you even use a speed cube with an internal gas block?

I couldn't see why not? The IGB is below the bolt and the cube is above in line with the bolt.

 

[sillycon]

I own the PACT MKIV~XP and it's still being sold. It has more features than I'll ever use, but my curious nature nudged me into buying mine just to check the ROF on various title 2 guns. It may not be worth the price of admission for many folks, but I enjoy knowing what the true numbers are with various uppers and ammo.
http://www.pact.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=74

I'm still curious what ROF other M11/9 owners get with their OEM uppers. Did you see my 1484 RPM ROF with my OEM upper?! People throw around 1100, 1200, 1300 but I wasn't prepared for almost 1500 RPM.

Did you do any special "trickery" to get the ROF feature to work? A guy at the range today had one, and it kept trying to convince us that my stock-upper M10/9 was shooting at ~600rpm, and it only counted 5 shots out of a 10-shot string.

 

[agriebel]

I couldn't see why not? The IGB is below the bolt and the cube is above in line with the bolt.

Of course, I didn't think it through....thanks

 

[Vegas SMG]

Did you do any special "trickery" to get the ROF feature to work? ...

No. It's really simple to use. Press two buttons and you get the "fire when ready" prompt. Hold the timer close to the ejection port and fire a continuous string of at least ten rounds, (I prefer twice that many) Press one more button and you get total rounds fired, elapsed time it took to fire the rounds, and the actual ROF on PACT's display.

If you shoot indoors, under a canopy, overhang, or other protected area, the echo will absolutely screw up the ROF function and give you a bad number.

 

[01SVTvert]

Did you do any special "trickery" to get the ROF feature to work? A guy at the range today had one, and it kept trying to convince us that my stock-upper M10/9 was shooting at ~600rpm, and it only counted 5 shots out of a 10-shot string.

Some timers have issues counting all the rounds. Just use the time from first to last and the known amount of rounds and use the math to equal out to sixty seconds = rof.


IE: 30 rds in 1.50 secs = ROF FORMULA::: 60/time of firing*number of rounds=ROF or in this case 60/1.5*30=1200 RPM

 

[sillycon]

Yea, I realized that on the way home; unfortunately too long after the fact to do any good. If I don't bump into someone with a shot timer in the next week or two I'll probably bring it to the next steel match and use one of those timers (once the match is over) to do a quick check.

 

[pmf]

Get the intermediate Lage bolt that runs around 750 rpm. The standard 600 rpm one is too slow for my tastes. Get a macjack, or cube (or a pencil eraser will work just as well). The macjack speeds my stock gun from around 1100 to around 1600 rpm. I'd guess it would speed the Lage upper gun with 750 rpm bolt up to around 1100 rpm. It's fun once in a while, but it makes the ammo evaporate pretty fast (a mag dump takes a little over a second). The target looks like it was hit with a 9mm shotgun.

 

[clownbaby]

Get the intermediate Lage bolt that runs around 750 rpm. The standard 600 rpm one is too slow for my tastes. Get a macjack, or cube (or a pencil eraser will work just as well). The macjack speeds my stock gun from around 1100 to around 1600 rpm. I'd guess it would speed the Lage upper gun with 750 rpm bolt up to around 1100 rpm. It's fun once in a while, but it makes the ammo evaporate pretty fast (a mag dump takes a little over a second). The target looks like it was hit with a 9mm shotgun.

Would it be more cost effective to just throw a mac jack in the MAX-11 with standard bolt instead of buying a whole new bolt? If I had to guess it would increase ROF from 600 to may be 800?

 

[Vegas SMG]

... The macjack speeds my stock gun from around 1100 to around 1600 rpm. I'd guess it would speed the Lage upper gun with 750 rpm bolt up to around 1100...

If you look at the ROF numbers I posted, you'll see a MacJack increased my ROF on a standard MAX-11 bolt from 610 to 787 which is an increase of 177 RPM. Additionally, the increase on my OEM upper went from 1484 to an insane 1856 RPM which is an increase of 372 RPM. Based on those two numbers I'd say the use of a MacJack with the 750 MAX bolt would give a ROF somewhere around 975 rounds per minute.

Without an accurate way to measure the ROF, we have "it sounds like, it feels like, it seems like, it's around, etc. I'd like more than a guess on the ROF. Again, I'm very curious to see what real world numbers people get from their OEM uppers.

 

[shawnr1]

I added an extra buffer to my Max-11DF. One additional buffer was a small, but noticeable ROF increase. It's still controllable and I can get singles off easily.

 

[pmf]

Would it be more cost effective to just throw a mac jack in the MAX-11 with standard bolt instead of buying a whole new bolt? If I had to guess it would increase ROF from 600 to may be 800?

Have you bought your Max-11 yet? If not, Lage will substitute the 600 rpm bolt for the 750 rpm bolt at no cost. It's the same bolt, it just has less wight attached to it.

 

[clownbaby]

Have you bought your Max-11 yet? If not, Lage will substitute the 600 rpm bolt for the 750 rpm bolt at no cost. It's the same bolt, it just has less wight attached to it.

I have and didn't realize that was an option. Do you think that they would swap them out since the upper has not be fired? (still waiting on host gun).