No Mitch this is something you do not know of what you speak.
Simply use the right rod and it will be as hard or harder than base material. No Master welder required.
I only say this because $200.00 will buy a nice afternoon's worth of ammo.
Mac 11/9 custom work -sear work
- Thread starter Generalzip
- Start date
Simply use the right rod and it will be as hard or harder than base material. No Master welder required.
I only say this because $200.00 will buy a nice afternoon's worth of ammo.
Back in 2007-08 timeframe I had CS Metal Werkes do a full refurb alignment on my m11. I similarly had a bolt round off and had a couple runaways. Since that service I have had no problem with any upper or bolt from 380, 9 mm, or 556.
That being said I don't think their Mac guy is still there. Today if I would do the same I would send it to Sam at PS.
MitchWerbellsGhost87
UZI Talk Life Member
So you mean to tell me when I build up the front of a worn out bolt with a 100 dollar wire welder and grind it to shape with a dremel tool it is just as good as the factory heat treated bolt assembly?? I use a MiG welder for all my repairs and I know others who use stick welders and wire welders from harbor freight and no, it is not better than the original bolt, not even close. last time I checked to even be able to USE a TIG setup you have to be a pretty knowledgeable welder… it’s not quite as simple as loading up a spool of wire and squeezing the trigger… the average guy who is doing a quick repair job in his garage doesnt even know how to use a TIG welder let alone which rod to choose. I just use the spool of wire that came in my 100 dollar harbor freight welder and I would not trust that repair for more than a few hundred rounds at BEST.
Most, if not all, of the guys in this thread would have to pay someone (probably more than the price of a new bolt) to have a professional TIG weld their bolt the way you speak of.
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Most, if not all,
That is a very bold statement. I wouldn't call myself a welder if I'm using $100 Chicago electric harbor freight welder. TIG welding is not that hard. Brazing is a way to apply hard metal too. Equipment and parts have hardened surfaces put on them all the time. Average Joe people are around this type of work all the time some of them even own machine guns. You of all people should know that with a little bit of research and reading you can be an expert and learn what filler rod and technique to tig weld. Yes, you might have initial cost for a better than bottom line TIG welder from Harbor freight, but it will be a one time cost and then you could be the TIG welder resurface bolt person of the world.
That is a very bold statement. I wouldn't call myself a welder if I'm using $100 Chicago electric harbor freight welder. TIG welding is not that hard. Brazing is a way to apply hard metal too. Equipment and parts have hardened surfaces put on them all the time. Average Joe people are around this type of work all the time some of them even own machine guns. You of all people should know that with a little bit of research and reading you can be an expert and learn what filler rod and technique to tig weld. Yes, you might have initial cost for a better than bottom line TIG welder from Harbor freight, but it will be a one time cost and then you could be the TIG welder resurface bolt person of the world.
now we have totally derail this to a welding discussion will the moderator, please kick me off the site so that I quit, letting myself get pulled into this petty childish behavior. This used to be a great place for information. I think it's become Facebook. I don't know I've never done Facebook.
Once upon a time I asked the moderator to deactivate my account and he said I had not done anything wrong to make that happen so please somebody tell me what I have to do to get kicked off. I'm weak. I read stupid stuff and think I have to respond.
MitchWerbellsGhost87
UZI Talk Life Member
Thread title is
Isn’t the thread title “custom sear work”? Pretty sure I was talking about welding up sears and sear surfaces as a quick fix… I’m not the one who hopped in and decided to tell me that I’m all wrong or whatever. I don’t think I am, and I don’t think that welding up the sear and grinding it down is as good of a fix as replacing the bolt and sear with a new one, but it will work for a little while… and I guess if you are this other guy and you are a good TIG welder and know the proper rod to use, you can weld up the sear surface and it will be as good as new. I’m sure this is true for some, but your mileage may vary. As far as I know there isn’t much other kind of “work” that can be done to a sear or a sear surface besides a complete replacement. If there is some way to repair or work on a sear or sear engagement surface without welding it up and reshaping it, I’m curious to know what it is.
MitchWerbellsGhost87
UZI Talk Life Member
I will say this. I have a handful of friends and acquaintances in this hobby and I interact with quite a few others as a small time retailer of gun parts. It is rare to come across other enthusiasts that are willing or able to repair their own parts or weld at all, let alone do it right. Seems the vast majority of the guys I have interacted with in this hobby send their guns and parts off to a gunsmith or other “professional” for repairs, and there is nothing wrong with that. I’ve got a few friends who are firearm enthusiasts that can weld on an amateur tinkerer level, like I mentioned previously… I encounter very few guys that can TIG unless they currently or previously have done it on a professional level. From what I understand, proper TIG welding is a bit of an art form. I’d also like to add that I am not just being an armchair commando here, I speak from experience when I talk about these bolt repairs and that is why I chimed in on this post to begin with… I’m not just coming in here to blow smoke and share my opinions without at least having actually done this numerous times.
Here is an early 90s Cobray m11/9 neutered semi auto bolt that has been welded up (Mig) and recut into an SMG bolt. It is easily doable, but if you aren’t a skilled TIG welder, it probably isn’t gonna be the long lasting repair the other guy is talking about, it is somewhat soft and will eventually peen down again and slip the sear.
From some of the factory gun stuff I've seen a HF mig in the hands of a monkey would be better work. I've found a LOT of factory stuff that wasn't done properly by companies that still exist. Hell, I just had to weld up a charging bar from a SA shotgun because the factory design had stress risers and it broke in half.
I do rewelds for fun. You would be surprised what you can do with a cheap mig and small furnace/oven. I'd trust a reweld with a little anneal time on my personal gun. 4140 is the material I always struggle with. It's really soft and has a tendency to pop welds. So far it's holding up with a reweld on case hardened 4140 in my belt fed x54r. Hell, I headspaced that belt fed with a welder and used a surface grinder to set headspace on my other x54r.
I would agree, it's not for everyone. Not everyone is set up for the work. I'm thankful to have a machine shop in my garage for hobbies but I lack most of the tooling I want/need. It can be done and is basically what is being done by the folks you pay. I'm sure it is expensive.
Welding up the worn sear surface is probably the first thing I'd try but I also have a spare bolt I could use when my PS bolt gets worn. I like to tinker. I work with extremely hard materials all the time. Tool steels and titanium are my thing. Most firearms bolts are pretty soft. They have to be to hold up to the abuse!
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MitchWerbellsGhost87
UZI Talk Life Member
I agree the inexpensive MIG setup is way better than nothing and you really can accomplish a whole lot with it that you would never be able to do without it. It may not be the quality or strength of a proper TIG weld, but I’m sure there are guys out there who do excellent MIG work. It has served me well, I bought mine second hand from a friend for cheap and it has come in very handy.
To keep it on topic, even the inexpensive mig can save you 100s if not 1000s of dollars repairing your own parts. Even if the repair doesn’t last forever, it can be done again and again and again. You probably don’t ever have to buy another bolt or sear for the rest of your life if you can weld, even if it’s not the best or hardest weld, it will still work and it can be repeated if necessary. I still think buying a brand new part is always going to be the more dependable option vs using a repaired part, but that doesn’t mean I don’t constantly repair parts instead of buying new ones, because I do. It’s part of the fun.
They make hardfacing welding wire for MIG, both gas type plain wire and flux core. Typically used to build up wear areas on snow plows and similar. very hard, abrasion resistant, and handles shock loads well. Perfect for a sear or bolt application like this. Drawbacks are users typically are commercial and the best deals are large spools, although smaller ones can be had. Also some is damn expensive. Link to an affordable name brand one, just what a quick search revealed not an endorsement.
www.weldingoutfitter.com
TIG welding is very similar to oxy acetylene welding, you are just using the arc to heat the metal instead of a flame. Plus the magnetic field of the arc can be used to manipulate the weld puddle. I am a 3G and 4G certified (now lapsed) MIG welder after a 3 week local course at a trade school, decent stick welder from growing up on a farm, and a relative newbie at TIG. Got one of those European TIG machines Harbor freight sold many years ago, actually a decent little welder with lift start. Finally upgraded to one of the Primeweld machines with HF start and a foot pedal, Until I tried HF start I never knew lift start sucks! But I learned a lot on it.
Like any welding, TIG requires regular practice to get and stay good, as well as coordination to both hold a tight arc with the torch and feed wire into the weld puddle. But it is well within the capabilities of most hobby level welders, and a decent DC only machine is in the $500 range these days for an import model. Tons of videos on YouTube to help out. And local classes, many large employers and unions offer to pay for continuing education. Mine was paid for through the local unemployment office when I was laid off.
Which is not to say everyone can learn to weld, a basic talent is required and some folks don't have it for whatever reason. We had a couple guys in our MIG class that couldn't even do a 90 degree weld where all you have to do is lay the torch against the corner and drag it along. I suspect one had poor eyesight, you do need to be able to see the weld puddle to be any good.
Lincoln ED036444 .045 Lincore 55-G Hardfacing Wire (10lb Plastic Spool
Shop our line of Lincoln ED036444 .045 Lincore 55-G Hardfacing Wire (10lb Plastic Spool). Call us @ 641-201-1352 with any questions.
www.weldingoutfitter.com
TIG welding is very similar to oxy acetylene welding, you are just using the arc to heat the metal instead of a flame. Plus the magnetic field of the arc can be used to manipulate the weld puddle. I am a 3G and 4G certified (now lapsed) MIG welder after a 3 week local course at a trade school, decent stick welder from growing up on a farm, and a relative newbie at TIG. Got one of those European TIG machines Harbor freight sold many years ago, actually a decent little welder with lift start. Finally upgraded to one of the Primeweld machines with HF start and a foot pedal, Until I tried HF start I never knew lift start sucks! But I learned a lot on it.
Like any welding, TIG requires regular practice to get and stay good, as well as coordination to both hold a tight arc with the torch and feed wire into the weld puddle. But it is well within the capabilities of most hobby level welders, and a decent DC only machine is in the $500 range these days for an import model. Tons of videos on YouTube to help out. And local classes, many large employers and unions offer to pay for continuing education. Mine was paid for through the local unemployment office when I was laid off.
Which is not to say everyone can learn to weld, a basic talent is required and some folks don't have it for whatever reason. We had a couple guys in our MIG class that couldn't even do a 90 degree weld where all you have to do is lay the torch against the corner and drag it along. I suspect one had poor eyesight, you do need to be able to see the weld puddle to be any good.
When my bolts (OEM and CFW) needed work I just milled the sear face back a few thousandth to square them up and called it good. Sure the bolt starts off a few thousandth further forward but it doesn't make a practical difference. I used a milling machine but if you have a little skill and a decent set of Swiss files or the like you can do it by hand.
I TIG welded my Lage sear at the same time using some spring steel wire I had since it has a higher alloy content. I mentioned before I have two thousand rounds on the repair and going strong. I am not a professional welder, never have been.
Like Deerhurst said, it's not for everyone to say the least but it's also not rocket surgery. Most gun problems can be self repaired. Just use your god given intelligence, get some knowledge from good sources, and know when to quit and call in the professionals.
I TIG welded my Lage sear at the same time using some spring steel wire I had since it has a higher alloy content. I mentioned before I have two thousand rounds on the repair and going strong. I am not a professional welder, never have been.
Like Deerhurst said, it's not for everyone to say the least but it's also not rocket surgery. Most gun problems can be self repaired. Just use your god given intelligence, get some knowledge from good sources, and know when to quit and call in the professionals.
MitchWerbellsGhost87
UZI Talk Life Member
This is good info but I do think it is definitely safe to say that as far as the layman or hobbyist is involved it’s gonna be a LOT easier and cheaper to figure out how to use an inexpensive wire welder, it’s definitely not a coincidence that the few guys I talk to that are experienced with TIG welding have all done it in some kind of professional capacity. Sure anyone can learn to TIG weld, with practice and determination like you said.. but most can buy a cheap wire welder and figure out how to use it in less than an hour and come up with some relatively useable welds and then not look at it again for a few months and then repeat etc, very simple and user friendly, not much in the way of a learning curve, but there is a reason why TIG welding is the preferable method, it is just a bit more involved and certainly seems to require definitely higher skill level to get it right.
a large majority of the M11/9 guns were rushed out the door in 1986, and the bolts were “not properly heat treated” apparently, i think they were probably not heat treated at all like you suggest. I don’t know about earlier RPB Or MAC bolts.
Even Uncoated High Speed Steel tooling will cut heat treated steel with the proper speeds and feeds up into the low RC 50,s. I do it all day long on orthopedic tooling!
And I have a Rockwell tester to test with.
Tig welding sears and bolts with a 1/16" A2 rod will achieve Rockwell C in the high 50,s to low 60,s on the wear surfaces.
And I have a Rockwell tester to test with.
Tig welding sears and bolts with a 1/16" A2 rod will achieve Rockwell C in the high 50,s to low 60,s on the wear surfaces.
Guys I really appreciate all the info and didn’t mean to incite an argument. To be frank, I spent 12k on this Mac. Buying an extra 300 dollar or whatever bolt is not a concern whatsoever. This leads me to my next question. Considering I have a hardened Lage sear installed what’s the best bolt to buy? Shit I’ll buy 2. I have what looks like a ftf bolt installed by the previous owner after the runaway. The original bolt I’ll throw in the trash or mail to someone if they want it.
Who makes the best aftermarket bolt for a m11/9? Again, appreciate all the insight as I’m new to the MG community.
Who makes the best aftermarket bolt for a m11/9? Again, appreciate all the insight as I’m new to the MG community.
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