M11 Large Magwell 380 Reliability

[Ericoak]

I bought a small magwell RPB and had Sam convert it to large magwell with the intention of mainly running it in 9mm. I do want to shoot some 380 with it.

I took it out to the range, loaded up 9mm mags with all the rounds seated to the rear of the magazine and had feed issues. Near the end of the day, I tried to show my friend the issue and loaded them like 8 rounds all the way forward and they all ran.

Any tips running 380 in large magwell guns? I know it will never be perfect, but reliable enough to scratch an itch will do.

 

[strobro32]

I have owned small and large griped M11 guns. My experience was the small metal grips and mags were more reliable with 380 ammo. The large mags that worked best with the 9mm grip with 380 ammo were the Recon Ordnance PAM2 mags that had the special followers and the longer feed lips. The slower the ROF, the more the small metal 380 mags were necessary.

i never had much luck getting the Shockwave mags to run reliably with 380 ammo even after mods. Most of my Shockwave mags were from the 1st batch that had problems like rusty springs and internal surfaces.

 

[Hey]

If you’re trying to run 380 with a tungsten bolt in a large magwell gun it won’t happen. Bolt speed isn’t fast enough to strip the rounds reliably.

With the 380 bolt my large magwell runs 100%.

 

[Pinkerton]

Mine runs awesome with the recon ord mags 380 or 9mm. 380 normal 380 bolt and 9mm with tungsten bolt. Small magazine 380 works great with tungsten bolt.

Pinkerton OUT!

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

It’s my understanding that the original 380 marked zytels had the feed lips heated and squeezed slightly to better accomodate the 380 ammo. I have had issues with the 380 rounds popping out of standard 9mm zytel magazines. The steel feedlip upgrades are a solution to this problem, I’ve got a whole lot of them if you need some let me know, you just epoxy them into the zytel mags and they will run 380 a bit more reliably without the feed issues due to the rounds wanting to pop out of the magazines a little too easily and screwing up the feed angle.

I also have a ton of the recon ordnance PAM-2 mags available, like Strobro said, these are the best option for 380 in the large magwell. if you would like to try some of those PM me and I’d be happy to help you out.

I much prefer the small grip 380 gun with the old factory steel mags, they seem to run more reliably than the large magwell M11A1 or the M11/9.

 

[Offmarksman]

Has anyone tried 3d printing an adapter for the large magwell to accept small magwell magazines? Just a thought…

 

[strobro32]

Yes but the over insertion tabs would not fit the longer 9mm grip. The grip would need to be made like the grease gun M10 mags with the flares.

Also made an Uzi mag adapter for the larger 9mm grip but it needed to use a Lage DIFR for the Uzi DF mags.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Yes but the over insertion tabs would not fit the longer 9mm grip. The grip would need to be made like the grease gun M10 mags with the flares.

Also made an Uzi mag adapter for the larger 9mm grip but it needed to use a Lage DIFR for the Uzi DF mags.

You could always just grind the stops off the small mags, not ideal but it would certainly fix that issue. I can’t recall if the small mag is narrow enough with enough clearance around it to incorporate the flares into the magwell insert.

 

[strobro32]

I did ground the tabs off for a CMP mag but that seems like a sin.

It is narrow enough but the small mag would only be effective if it was up against the front of the 9mm grip to limit the distance the cartridge has to jump.

 

[Hey]

It is narrow enough but the small mag would only be effective if it was up against the front of the 9mm grip to limit the distance the cartridge has to jump.

I was planning to do this so I could try .380 with the cfw bolt. I must admit your video one-hand shooting has been a driving factor trying to custom load everything from (9mm) 100grn up to 168grn (all powder levels) trying to make it like .380 power with 9mm dimensions for the large magwell with a Zmag.

Nothing quite like your video 100% reliable without a can. Willing to have a pet recipe for that gun.

Next step is the small-grip magazine mod (But would then have to weld some together to up the capacity).

If you tell me that video was a one-off and it wasn’t as great as it seems that would put me out of my misery and I can stop the quest. lol -I have 1000 .380 bullets from Berrys ready if it gets to that point.

p.s. anyone have a cheap .380 mag I can get to try out? If so I’ll post the 3d CAD file of the eventual spacer/adapter for anyone to use.

 

[strobro32]

It was not a one off. It was the prototype W bolt I tested for Tom plus factory 380 ammo and the CT9K suppressor. I sold that bolt but I can't remember to who. I miss it.

https://flic.kr/p/2i8BFvV

 

[Hey]

Actually, next thing I’ll try is 380 in a PAM2 mag with the longer feedlips. Need to load up some .380 though, store prices don’t make $ense.

 

[strobro32]

Jerry from Recon had 2 different followers for those mags. I can't remember which was for the 380. I think the right one.

 

[strobro32]

I thought the zytel followers worked better so I cast some for the RO mags.

 

[Hey]

^ Sick. 🇺🇲

 

[Ericoak]

I might just have to be content borrowing a buddies unmodified one if I can't get this to run. I should have another shoot in a couple weeks, I'll give it another shot and report back. Using Shockwave mags BTW.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

I thought the zytel followers worked better so I cast some for the RO mags.

That is really cool.. you 3d printed an injection mold or what?? Need more info here please

 

[strobro32]

At the time zytel followers were the most reliable for 380 in the PAM2 mags.
I had 6 PAM2s and 1 zytel mag.
I used a zytel follower as a model, made a silicon mold and gravity cast in 6 urethane followers.

 

[A&S Conversions]

You certainly might get lucky, but it is my understanding that the Shockwave mags don't support the shorter .380 rounds to guide the round into the chamber as the small frame factory mags. Because of the speed of the factory steel bolt, I larger 9mm mags might do better with the factory bolt than the slower tungsten bolt.

It is too bad that you converted your small magwell gun to the large magwell, if you wanted slow fire .380. Tom (the guy who brought the tungsten bolt to market) did a fair amount of testing. To my knowledge, he never got the large frame M11A1 to run reliabily with .380 with the tungsten bolt. I am sorry to let you know this after you spent the money on the magwell conversion. I would have thought, for slow fire 9mm a Versa 11 would have been easier than the magwell conversion of the small frame gun. I hope your gun comes out the way you would like it to.

Scott

 

[Ericoak]

You certainly might get lucky, but it is my understanding that the Shockwave mags don't support the shorter .380 rounds to guide the round into the chamber as the small frame factory mags. Because of the speed of the factory steel bolt, I larger 9mm mags might do better with the factory bolt than the slower tungsten bolt.

It is too bad that you converted your small magwell gun to the large magwell, if you wanted slow fire .380. Tom (the guy who brought the tungsten bolt to market) did a fair amount of testing. To my knowledge, he never got the large frame M11A1 to run reliabily with .380 with the tungsten bolt. I am sorry to let you know this after you spent the money on the magwell conversion. I would have thought, for slow fire 9mm a Versa 11 would have been easier than the magwell conversion of the small frame gun. I hope your gun comes out the way you would like it to.

Scott

There is some confusion here. I don't want to shoot .380 in slow fire , I just wanted to shoot it in the regular configuration .380 buzz saw for fun once. But not a big deal if I can't.

.380 is more expensive, I have shot enough 9mm with my Tungsten bolt to easily pay for the conversion. I also have a couple of friends who have small magwell guns, I'll just shoot theirs to scratch that itch.

The Versa 11 is a much bigger gun than an M11 with a Tungsten bolt. I have a Max31C for my M11/9 if I'm going "full size".