Is New Technology Like Forced Reset Triggers Or Super Safety Going To Reduce The Viability Of Multiple Thousand Dollar Accessories
- Thread starter A&S Conversions
- Start date
Has there been any official documents released on the raid? Initially the word of mouth and twinbros report was they were raided for something they called a "Pepper jack" which apparently was a FA conversion device for the Mac platform. Then it changed to the SS being the reason for the raid.
The entire auto key card thing is BS. AFT wanted to act big and tough and somehow got a bunch of 10w brains on the jury.
I for one would love to see SS and FRTs become mainstream and socially welcomed. Just like the good with their "Glock switches" in enough numbers enforcement means nothing. Take down one and 10 takes it's place. Look at prohibition.
At the moment real unpapered MGs are being ignored. Guess it's not sensational enough or something to go after actual crime.
I haven't dug into it so I'm not exactly sure where they exist, but apparently it's a printable trigger that allowed FA. However, there seems to be a big thing with people printing lowers and throwing Mac uppers on them. Maybe that's what it was geared towards.
Gaujo
UZI Talk Supporter
Oooooooh. I see. The mac is an optimal 3d printed lower design, even easier to work with than an ar-15 as it's a pistol caliber system. I have made the poison sumac and db9 slim myself, both of which use "traditional" mac uppers.
You guys aren’t helping me stop thinking about buying a 3D printer
https://greymarketresearch.net/
https://deeznutztactical.com/
https://skoprints.com/
https://greymarketresearch.net/
https://deeznutztactical.com/
https://skoprints.com/
ericthered
UZI Talk Supporter
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So if we don't exercise our freedoms/rights for fear of them being taken away... do we even have them? Many of us have pistol braces, which if we are being honest was a much grayer area then a frt/art. I haven't sold my guns and bought airsoft for home defense in fear that my guns will be banned, thats illogical.
On the other hand, I don't think it is wise to use a frt or a mg for home defense. Primarily because it would most likely be ruled "excessive force". It would be handy for mobs however.
On the other hand, I don't think it is wise to use a frt or a mg for home defense. Primarily because it would most likely be ruled "excessive force". It would be handy for mobs however.
GunsCarsPlanes
Well-known member
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That's the thing, the uncertainty of bump stocks, FRTs and SS items come in the form of the ATF. I don't see those items being more than a short lived fad.
Are we allowed to buy SS devices or is this going to be another "yeah you can buy it but the ATF is tracking all of em and will be knocking on your door"?
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Fascinating. I had no idea such innovation and enterprise existed. What will come out next? A cell phone app that lets you set the rate of fire?
I guess that it just goes to again prove that if there is a demand it will be filled one way or another.
There isn’t really any uncertainty with bump stocks anymore. The Supreme Court struck down the ATF’s ban. Between the logic demonstrated in that case and the death of Chevron deference, the ATF’s leash got a lot shorter.
There is no uncertainty on Bump Stocks. The Supreme Court has ruled on that matter...ATF reversed and said they're machine guns, the SC says they're not. The only thing restricting Bump Stocks is the handful of states which have banned them. Going forward, there could be more states that ban them -or- Federal legislation.
With regard to Forced Reset Triggers, the Texas Federal District Court did essentially the same thing. ATF said FRTs are machine guns and the District Court said they're not...and that ATF overstepped its statutory authority in making such a claim. So, FRTs are currently unrestricted with the exception of the handful of states that ban them and going forward there could be more states which enact legislation to do so as there could be Federal legislation. For now and the foreseeable future, they're protected by court ruling.
Gaujo
UZI Talk Supporter
I would say they are a legal hot potato like delta 8 cannabinoids in that they fell between the lines of the law and the lawmakers haven't successfully banned them yet.
AFT is already tracing your purchases. Some CC processors are flagging purchases from FFLs and other firearms parts distributors.
To think things have not been documented and tracked for quite some time is entertaining.
FRTs and other mechanisms and ideas have been around for almost a century. At least as long as the NFA has existed. Hell, it's so ridiculous that there are literal shoestrings that are NFA registered machine guns. It really is that ludicrous.
FRTs will forever be around. Even if they are eventually banned by Congress they will still be in circulation and in use. Some will be people that don't know, lots.of MGs that way, and others people that don't care. Others still stowed for a rainy day.
What's tragic is machine guns are legal in America. The Government recognizes the right of the people to own them. The people in power have always said with enough paperwork and money, anything is legal.
What is sad is that the poorest people pay the taxes that power the government but they can't be trusted to have cheap machine guns.
What is sad is that the poorest people pay the taxes that power the government but they can't be trusted to have cheap machine guns.
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I don't think they can ban the new tech. If SCOTUS determines they don't meet the definition of MGs they aren't. A new law would not be kosher since the many sold before a law could be passed makes them in common use.
Hughes should also be found wanting as it banned an entire class of arms almost every military on the planet issues to their military folk. When the 2A was passed, the militia was the primary means of raising a force quickly enough to fight off an invasion. The full time Army of the time, when not at war, was too small to do much more than delay any large force until the militia could be activated and deployed.
Arguing the Founders, who had just barely won a war with one of the best armies of their day, would approve of a law which limited militia members from owning the same arms they would be facing is plainly idiotic. In fact, arguing they are dangerous and unusual is actually an argument that the Founders would have wanted them to own them for the advantage it gave them.
Hughes should also be found wanting as it banned an entire class of arms almost every military on the planet issues to their military folk. When the 2A was passed, the militia was the primary means of raising a force quickly enough to fight off an invasion. The full time Army of the time, when not at war, was too small to do much more than delay any large force until the militia could be activated and deployed.
Arguing the Founders, who had just barely won a war with one of the best armies of their day, would approve of a law which limited militia members from owning the same arms they would be facing is plainly idiotic. In fact, arguing they are dangerous and unusual is actually an argument that the Founders would have wanted them to own them for the advantage it gave them.
Pursuing this aggressively as opposed to acquiescing to ATF interpretation could be what finally breaks the unconstitutional NFA.
More and more interested shooters see it as unconstitutional and something that can be fought. Previously most all interested shooters just accepted there was no path to freedom.
Thank goodness for SIG not backing down on braces.
Thank goodness for Rare Breed not backing down on FRT
Patriots!
More and more interested shooters see it as unconstitutional and something that can be fought. Previously most all interested shooters just accepted there was no path to freedom.
Thank goodness for SIG not backing down on braces.
Thank goodness for Rare Breed not backing down on FRT
Patriots!
As someone who bought a Mac-10 for $10k in Feb of this year, and as someone that has a Super Safety that I bought for $100. I can tell you with the utmost certainty, I will never spend $25k+ on a transferable AR lower or RDIS. It just doesn't make sense in a world where one can buy a drop in Super Safety for $100 with the trigger pre cut. Its just works too well. The cyclic rate is literally higher than a real full auto AR depending on buffer weight.
People are just now waking up to the super safety, there are already people working on the AK super safety and they are selling two position SS's in the facebook group for AK's already. It already exist for the AK! People also have made SS for .22 LR AR uppers. So long as FRT's remain legal, expect the market to EXPLODE on these. There will come a day when half of ARs being sold have SS pre installed from the factory. This is a real future we are about to see.
I have already seen sellers on Gunbroker selling SS AR's for $900. Thats not a bad deal for someone that doesnt want to fuss with installing a SS and has money. I had to fuss with mine and adjust it a few times before it would run right in my lower.
You need 3 things for a super safety to work:
I do believe that if FRTs like the Super Safety dont get outlawed, they will absolutely ruin the transferable market, namely for AR style rifles and lowers. If there is no threat of them being illegal and the courts allow them, there is zero incentive to pay $25k+ for a transferable. Im sure they will always hold some value, but I dont see values going up long term anymore in super safety world. There is always the threat of Congress outlawing them after some horrible shooting, e.x. Vegas shooter type thing so transferables will always hold a premium but I could see a future where values stall out for many guns and may even drop some. I would expect demand to lower significantly once you're able to buy a SS AR from PSA for $499. Thats when you know its gonna get nasty in the transferable world.
People are just now waking up to the super safety, there are already people working on the AK super safety and they are selling two position SS's in the facebook group for AK's already. It already exist for the AK! People also have made SS for .22 LR AR uppers. So long as FRT's remain legal, expect the market to EXPLODE on these. There will come a day when half of ARs being sold have SS pre installed from the factory. This is a real future we are about to see.
I have already seen sellers on Gunbroker selling SS AR's for $900. Thats not a bad deal for someone that doesnt want to fuss with installing a SS and has money. I had to fuss with mine and adjust it a few times before it would run right in my lower.
You need 3 things for a super safety to work:
- Low shelf lower or M16 pocket lower (high shelf can work but you're gonna have to dremel out material so the SS lever can move back far enough)
- Full auto BCG (almost all AR's come with this now, but my 2017 era Ruger AR-556 had a semi auto BCG, this will not work because the SS lever needs the full auto BCG profile to trip the lever correctly).
- mil spec upper (which is most uppers)
I do believe that if FRTs like the Super Safety dont get outlawed, they will absolutely ruin the transferable market, namely for AR style rifles and lowers. If there is no threat of them being illegal and the courts allow them, there is zero incentive to pay $25k+ for a transferable. Im sure they will always hold some value, but I dont see values going up long term anymore in super safety world. There is always the threat of Congress outlawing them after some horrible shooting, e.x. Vegas shooter type thing so transferables will always hold a premium but I could see a future where values stall out for many guns and may even drop some. I would expect demand to lower significantly once you're able to buy a SS AR from PSA for $499. Thats when you know its gonna get nasty in the transferable world.
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