Looking at buying another Uzi. Had a Group back in 84. Sold it and now looking for another Uzi. After reading the history about Group and Vector What do you guys think is best. Is a Group as good as an IMI or are they the same?
IMI or Group Industries
- Thread starter Stoner630
- Start date
BWE Firearms
UZI Talk Life Member
Full Auto or semi auto?
Vegas SMG
UZI Talk Life Member,
Group receivers are all out of spec. I owned a Vector completed GI receiver gun and now own an IMI conversion. As long as the blocking bar has been removed, you can bring an IMI up to full auto specs and you’ve got a wonderful gun that’s as close to factory as possible. Only an IMI is an Uzi. GI’s are clones.
Assuming you're talking about a full auto, nothing is better (or even as good) as a fully converted IMI. It would be almost identical to a factory IMI full auto, with the exception that it would have a better feed ramp than a factory FA.
Thats what I was looking for. I was hoping the IMI semi would be just as good as the FA gun. Worried that the semi auto guns were not as well made as the FA gun and it would not hold up as well. I have looked at Ruben Mendiola and he has a few converted guns that are full mg bolts.
Like Tom said, only an IMI is an Uzi. I have a model B semi. It is the real deal.
All that said, I have a Vector FA uzi because it was a good deal from a local dealer. Out of spec receiver or not, mine runs 100%
Would I have preferred an IMI FA? Yep, but I have no regrets.
All that said, I have a Vector FA uzi because it was a good deal from a local dealer. Out of spec receiver or not, mine runs 100%
Would I have preferred an IMI FA? Yep, but I have no regrets.
Same here. Got mine back in 2001, right before Vector ran out. It runs and runs and runs. I'd agree that a properly converted IMI is more desirable, but if you have to pay more than a Vector, and then turn around and have work done on it, I'd take the Vector.
Vegas SMG
UZI Talk Life Member,
Most people will never have an issue with their GI receiver guns, but I wouldn’t pay a premium for any of the guns mentioned in this thread unless it was a *full* conversion of an IMI Uzi.
If it has the barrel restrictor ring it can’t use a standard F/A bolt. The bolt would have to be clearances to go over the ring. I have an full size IMI conversion and a GI mini. Both are 100% reliable. $13k for a partial convert seems high to me.
I think you pay at least a 10% premium for anything from that guy. He does provide a service -- you know its not a scam and you know what you're buying. If white glove service is worth the premium, then his prices are what you pay. From what nklf says, that sounds like a half assed conversion to me.
13.7k is super high for ANY full size uzi right now. period. full stop. But if the seller provides excellent service that is of added value to YOU then knock yourself out.
I own Group and IMI Uzis. Both fine . Sold the 3rd one off last yr. I shoot the Group . 10 yrs + now, tens of thou of rnds-crappy reloads. Cant tell the functional difference bt the two. If looking for a shooter grade Uzi I'd just buy the cheapest fully converted one you can and be done with it. Verify its reliable shooter. The vast majority of whatever demons existed in the vector/group guns of yore have been exorcised by now. Oh and dont let bolt guns scare you off as long as you dont care about cal. changes- just insist on vids of the gun solidly performing and you'll be fine.
My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.
I own Group and IMI Uzis. Both fine . Sold the 3rd one off last yr. I shoot the Group . 10 yrs + now, tens of thou of rnds-crappy reloads. Cant tell the functional difference bt the two. If looking for a shooter grade Uzi I'd just buy the cheapest fully converted one you can and be done with it. Verify its reliable shooter. The vast majority of whatever demons existed in the vector/group guns of yore have been exorcised by now. Oh and dont let bolt guns scare you off as long as you dont care about cal. changes- just insist on vids of the gun solidly performing and you'll be fine.
My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.
Yeah -- good point about a bolt gun. Often they are thousands of dollars cheaper because they are the least desirable uzi. I've got 22 and 45 conversions for my uzi, and I can't tell you when the last time I used either. 22's are just a finicky PITA. 45 is a bit big for the gun (I know why Thompsons are so heavy). An uzi runs best in 9mm.
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All great info. He also has 4 Group Industries guns that are all in Ecl+ or mint cond. They too run about 13695.00. I had a Group back in 84 I think it was. Ran great. Where else can I look for a dealer. Om GB they are even higher.
I've got 5 Uzi SMG:
2 Fullsize (Group/Vector & an IMI) - both RR - both run 100%
2 Mini - both Group/Vector RR NIB
1 Micro RR (Action Arms I think...) - runs great with both open and closed bolts in 9mm
Personally, I would only buy a properly converted RR
None of them really get shot anymore...
2 Fullsize (Group/Vector & an IMI) - both RR - both run 100%
2 Mini - both Group/Vector RR NIB
1 Micro RR (Action Arms I think...) - runs great with both open and closed bolts in 9mm
Personally, I would only buy a properly converted RR
None of them really get shot anymore...
I personally wouldn't buy an IMI conversion. I would buy either a Group or Vector gun.
I certainly respect the opinions of our Host Roverdave and Vegas SMG. Some of the Vector/Group guns have had problems, that is undeniable. Personally, my Vector has run flawlessly for the nearly ten years I have owned it. That is thousands of rounds including 5k of the nasty Egyptian surplus. Through it all it hasn't missed a beat.
Here succinctly is why I wouldn't buy an IMI conversion. For several years I compiled a database of the serial numbers of full auto, full size Uzis. I never shared this data online and I no longer have it. What I found was disturbing. While not in any great quantity, I found some Uzis that miraculously lost their blocking bars over the years. This gets even more confusing to a prospective purchaser when some manufacturers made both married slotted bolt conversions and full conversions. You can also find in the archives of some sites, posts by people admitting to the removal of blocking bars. At one time, many people people believed that removal of the blocking bar was perfectly legal.
Now maybe I'm being a bit of an alarmist, but I can envision circumstances where the ATF would compare the original Form 1 with the actual gun. I personally wouldn't want to possess a full conversion where Form 1 said that the method of conversion was by slotting a bolt. I just have a sense that post the "M11 to any other machinegun" fiasco and prosecution that the ATF is turning up their scrutiny.
Like I said, this is just my opinion. Don't ask me for the serial number list, it doesn't exist anymore.
I certainly respect the opinions of our Host Roverdave and Vegas SMG. Some of the Vector/Group guns have had problems, that is undeniable. Personally, my Vector has run flawlessly for the nearly ten years I have owned it. That is thousands of rounds including 5k of the nasty Egyptian surplus. Through it all it hasn't missed a beat.
Here succinctly is why I wouldn't buy an IMI conversion. For several years I compiled a database of the serial numbers of full auto, full size Uzis. I never shared this data online and I no longer have it. What I found was disturbing. While not in any great quantity, I found some Uzis that miraculously lost their blocking bars over the years. This gets even more confusing to a prospective purchaser when some manufacturers made both married slotted bolt conversions and full conversions. You can also find in the archives of some sites, posts by people admitting to the removal of blocking bars. At one time, many people people believed that removal of the blocking bar was perfectly legal.
Now maybe I'm being a bit of an alarmist, but I can envision circumstances where the ATF would compare the original Form 1 with the actual gun. I personally wouldn't want to possess a full conversion where Form 1 said that the method of conversion was by slotting a bolt. I just have a sense that post the "M11 to any other machinegun" fiasco and prosecution that the ATF is turning up their scrutiny.
Like I said, this is just my opinion. Don't ask me for the serial number list, it doesn't exist anymore.
Samuel_Hoggson
Well-known member
Dunno about ATF scrutiny but last Eden shoot we saw a IMI conversion that couldn't run well thanks to poor/incomplete blocking bar removal. Fixable, of course, but so are all the Group misalignment issues. Agree with rhouston8's take.
Not having much luck with prices or dealers. The Uzi's I've seen on GB, Mendiola and Midwest Tactical are all about the same. Thye all are around 13,900 or higher. I may wait a while to see if any come down a little.
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