I am back, and back on the 22lr upper. M11-33

[Tobias Arms]

WOW 11 years since i first made this prototype. https://www.uzitalk.com/forums/index.php?threads/got-my-prototype-m11-ar22-conversion-working.67970/

Family and job is what kept me from finishing it. Kid is now older and the job recently did not renew my contract so now I am freelance and starting my little home shop back up.

Just finished the extractor and firing pin on my latest prototype. the M11-33 which of course uses CP33 magazines. Still need to test it , but it did pop a primer.

 

[Concorde]

It's so nice to have you back! I've always admired that project and your design talent. I do hope you're able to finish it and commercialize it (simply because I want one)!!

 

[KickStand]

Great news.

I’ve got a feeling the next few years are going to be great for MAC owners (new and great things to come).

 

[Tobias Arms]

I am not giving up on the ar22 mag version, but the CP33 mag version is closer to a finished product.

 

[Deerhurst]

Hell yes!

I need to get a PM63 done and get back on Mac projects.

 

[strobro32]

It's great to see you back.

 

[Tobias Arms]

BTW, i started an X account if you want to follow this and other future projects. https://twitter.com/Tobias_Arms
will focus on work related posting. home shop stuff, and other non-mac projects, etc. (will try to avoid the BS)

will still post stuff here, but its easier to post direct from the phone to X. and they are the most pro gun option.

first x posts were about making the extractor for the m11-33 PT1 shown above.
BTW the prototype above is far from done. this was designed to be super cheap and simple functional prototype. the barrel is held in by the clamshell nylon halves, so overheating will likely cause accuracy issues as the nylon softens. Good enough to test the function though.

PT2 is still in my head, but already have a 1022 pistol barrel on the way, and some aluminum picatinny rail sections as well. planning on some sort of aluminum trunnion for the barrel to mount to.

I want to use an off the shelf barrel, like the 1022 barrel. just opens up so many options. though most are meant for accuracy, and may have tight chambers that hinder reliability in full-auto.

 

[strobro32]

I'm interested in why you picked the CP33 magazines, besides capacity. They are notorious for have loading and unloading problems. Has that been an issue with an open bolt system?

 

[GWP]

marlin 60 barrels are way cheaper than 10/22 , just a thought.

 

[Tobias Arms]

marlin 60 barrels are way cheaper than 10/22 , just a thought.

but can you get them in pistol length?
quick search showed not very many available. lots of options in 1022.
got a link to the way cheaper barrels?

 

[Tobias Arms]

I'm interested in why you picked the CP33 magazines, besides capacity. They are notorious for have loading and unloading problems. Has that been an issue with an open bolt system?

They are compact, 50 rounds in a stick mag, not much else compares. I am very familiar with them, since i designed them. I know that they can and do feed in full auto fine in closed bolt. so a slower open bolt should be no issue.

They are tricky to load, but nothing too difficult. mag loaders help some people.

one big difference is they are double feed mags, instead of the single feed that the majority of 22lr mags are. so the bolt has a wider feed rib, which would need to be modified for other single feed mags.

not ruling other mags out. in fact multiple mag options is always good.

 

[Jmacken37]

How is the magazine release setup with your prototype? Is it a European-type design with mag release on the heel of the magwell?

 

[Tobias Arms]

PT1 above has the stock CP33 mag catch installed, and there is a bar going up to in front of the trigger guard of the lower that can activate it. you can reach it with your trigger finger and press down (extends out on both sides). You can also reach the heal mag release like usual too.

I want to shorten the mag well a little, so the mag catch will change, but I like having both heal and front button options. it is not comfortable to use the trigger finger release on PT1, so that needs some work.


BTW, cp33 mag use also means somewhat easy conversion to 22wmr and PMR30 mags.

 

[strobro32]

Thanks for the info. Someone mentioned that you worked for Keltec.

I'm looking forward to seeing video.

What is the ROF and is there plans for an A1 upper?

 

[Tobias Arms]

A1 upper should be easy mod. there is plenty of room in the back to shorten it up. that is a planned variant.
ROF should be similar to my old ar22 prototype (there are videos in the original thread) as the bolt mass and travel is the same.

BTW, semi auto disconnect appears to work as it should. heading to the range today to do real testing.

yup, 21 years at Kel-Tec, learned a lot there under George Kellgren.

Toby

 

[pjm204]

A1 upper should be easy mod. there is plenty of room in the back to shorten it up. that is a planned variant.
ROF should be similar to my old ar22 prototype (there are videos in the original thread) as the bolt mass and travel is the same.

BTW, semi auto disconnect appears to work as it should. heading to the range today to do real testing.

yup, 21 years at Kel-Tec, learned a lot there under George Kellgren.

Toby

Awesome project! I believe I've met you some years ago at Shot Show in 2008 and then again in like 2013 when I rode my motorcycle down to the factory. I think everyone felt bad that I rode 1000 miles to visit the factory in the Winter so I was given a great tour

Look forward to seeing more. Is your plan to market this or just release files for others to 3d print? M10 version?

 

[Tobias Arms]

Certainly likely. I think i only missed 1 SHOT show in my 21 years (and covid canceled 1).

I am basically starting up my own company from scratch. I plan on building and selling these uppers. maybe some contract design work if it comes up, but mainly design and build my own projects, and offer them up for licensing or build them in small quantities myself. This design is fairly modular so a version for M10 is certainly doable. The bolt is basically suspend on steel rails that are bonded into the polymer upper, but that may change on the next version which should have an aluminum picatinny.

The other personal project i am working on is a pump action shoulderable mag fed gatling gun in 22lr (am180 mag of course). But will need an FFL before i can sell that. will likely get one at some point in the future. will stick to stuff that does not need one for now.

 

[Tobias Arms]

The question of ROF always comes up. Personally, i like a low enough ROF that i can pull singles easilly. around 800 to 1000 rpm i believe is where this is for me.

but is that what everyone wants? Its not too hard to raise it with a spacer block to lower the travel distance. my original AR22 prototype had a moveable block so I could adjust the ROF. but i always left it on the lower rate, so took that feature out.

 

[pjm204]

Certainly likely. I think i only missed 1 SHOT show in my 21 years (and covid canceled 1).

I am basically starting up my own company from scratch. I plan on building and selling these uppers. maybe some contract design work if it comes up, but mainly design and build my own projects, and offer them up for licensing or build them in small quantities myself. This design is fairly modular so a version for M10 is certainly doable. The bolt is basically suspend on steel rails that are bonded into the polymer upper, but that may change on the next version which should have an aluminum picatinny.

The other personal project i am working on is a pump action shoulderable mag fed gatling gun in 22lr (am180 mag of course). But will need an FFL before i can sell that. will likely get one at some point in the future. will stick to stuff that does not need one for now.

Wow, pump action, mag fed gatling gun using AM180 drums. I can't even visualize that!

 

[Tobias Arms]

Wow, pump action, mag fed gatling gun using AM180 drums. I can't even visualize that!

Understandable. took me a while too.
I have gone thru many sketches and iterations in my head. I finally have something that is plausible. Still a work in progress though, but It is my unicorn gun, and I MUST (and will, at some point) build it!

this is with 16" barrels. there would be a stock. possibly sight thru the hollow center of the barrel group.... still lots up in the air. its an odd gun that I do not think has ever been done before.