Gauging Interest in Tungsten Slow Fire Bolts

MACsAlot

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I just gotta ask.

Whats with the non refundable dep. ?

I'm kinda in but this part seems odd...perhaps you could clarify.
Maybe I missed something obvious...it is Friday....
The deposit would only be collected if we get the minimum number of orders to move forward with the project. I haven't counted today, but there were over 40 interested last night, so it looks like we will be moving forward. Once I get a final number for the bolt run, I'll start contacting those that want one and you hold your place in line with a deposit. Why a deposit? Because I've have years of experience running wait lists and I can say that those that actually buy are about 50%. I don't want to order 100 bolts and have half of them sitting on the shelf until they eventually sell. I don't want my cash flow tied up in inventory when I could use it for other projects like .22 kits or a slow fire hybrid tungsten bolt for the M10s. We are doing this run to honor Tom and to give those that want a bolt the chance to buy a bolt, I promise we wont be retiring off of this project and we don't want to deal with people who are not serious buyers. This might be blunt, but sorry not sorry.
 

MACsAlot

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Can these be dropped into an otherwise-stock M11? I want to continue to run 380, but slower.
Is your gun a small or large mag well? There are threads on this site that go over this in detail.
 

MACsAlot

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I might be wrong but I think the last run was 75 bolts. If they’re only hoping to get 25 this time kind of sounds like the market is drying up. I’m sure they’re aware of how many people say they will buy something and then actually do.
It's hard to determine a market when it's been 2 years since the last run and the price has risen like it has, hence us taking it to the boards/social media to gauge interest.
 

MACsAlot

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@MACsAlot, some constructive feedback: the CFW9mmA bolts appear to be made to the same spec as the original .380 bolt. This includes the dimension of the breech face.

Since the .380 has a slightly smaller head diameter than the 9x19, the breech face is also of a smaller diameter.

This generally works fine with both cartridges, but I have run into instances where the case head of the 9mm would not fit onto the breech face. The same cartridges fired just fine with a 9mm spec bolt. Maybe my bolt is on the tight end of the tolerance range, and the ammo was on the wide end. Either way, it was not compatible.

You should consider machining the breech face like that of a 9mm bolt, as the slightly larger face diameter would still work fine for those who want to run .380 with their bolt.
Some of the bolt faces were tight and we had to open them up. As the tool wears the bolt faces get smaller. We have seen this on every run, some of the bolt faces are tighter than others.
 
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panhead5

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Uh --Oh it appears the value of my Baby Ghost upper with the cfw-a bolt may have dropped . That's if you don't mind waiting for the new ones. What is the time frame ?
 

LawBob

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The intent of the "A" bolts was to be able to reiably and controlably shoot 9mm in large mag well .380 guns. Many user have been able to tune their bolts to shoot .380, as well. I would recommend doing a search on the old threads that go over the usablility of the CF-W bolts in all the M11/9 and A1/380 configurations. There is tons of info on this site.

Yes, these can be used in Lage uppers, however, Tom had explained to us that it didn't make a noticable difference in the 31 series uppers. But I am not the one to answer questions about using the CF-W bolts in Lage products. Hopefully someone else can pipe up and answer your questions better.
If you have one of the adapters you can also use it in the max-11a1 mk2 or max-11 mk2

I forget what it’s called but it’s the 3D printed spacer
 

CKxx

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Is your gun a small or large mag well? There are threads on this site that go over this in detail.

It's a small mag well.

I searched a bit via Google. You'll find a lot of older threads are dead links since the update. If you try to search here via the search tool, it'll tell you a 3-letter search term is too short. That makes "CFW" and "380" a bit of a challenge.
 

A&S Conversions

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Just for reference, it is my understanding that the second generation "A" bolt could be used with a small magwell M11 for .380, a large magwell M11 with 9mm, and a M11/NINE in 9mm. Of course the tungsten bolt will need the proper length recoil spring, recoil spring guide rod, and ejector.

The large magwell shooting .380 is problematic because the mags that are designed for the longer 9mm rounds can hold .380, but don't support the rounds enough with a slow fire bolt going slower. So .380 in a 9mm mag will tend to have function problems because of the lack of support from the mag lips.

The tungsten bolt is a great accessory. It is my understanding that the tungsten bolt in a large magwell M11 using 9mm, brought the cyclic rate down to around 1,000 rounds per minute. That seems fast, but compared other 9mm full auto pistols is close to half their cyclic rate. I am fortunate enough to have at least one of the full sized and both of the "A" bolt models. A great product.

Scott

ETA If you search: CF(W) tungsten bolt
There were 10 pages came up.
 
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LawBob

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The deposit would only be collected if we get the minimum number of orders to move forward with the project. I haven't counted today, but there were over 40 interested last night, so it looks like we will be moving forward. Once I get a final number for the bolt run, I'll start contacting those that want one and you hold your place in line with a deposit. Why a deposit? Because I've have years of experience running wait lists and I can say that those that actually buy are about 50%. I don't want to order 100 bolts and have half of them sitting on the shelf until they eventually sell. I don't want my cash flow tied up in inventory when I could use it for other projects like .22 kits or a slow fire hybrid tungsten bolt for the M10s. We are doing this run to honor Tom and to give those that want a bolt the chance to buy a bolt, I promise we wont be retiring off of this project and we don't want to deal with people who are not serious buyers. This might be blunt, but sorry not sorry.
What she said
 

Hey...

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No doubt enough will sign on for at least one run.

Little known fact (pretty much zero known) there was a very final modification after the CFW-9mmA that had a dot instead of dash. A friend has one of them. Rare, it was a prototype of the latest revision that Tom never saw completed.

Tom didn’t make much money on these bolts. This was something he invested heavily, not for profit. It was similar to him buying pallets of Suomi drums when they became available and passing them to us at very reasonable cost.

With the rising cost of tungsten in relation to their asking price, and PS standing behind the result, this is a time to buy if you don’t have one, as they are situated to provide the best possible end-product. You can’t hope for a 2nd run as from what I’ve seen it’s not a simple eBay purchase, it’s a major gamble on their part. I hope the machine shop comes through without much hassle.
 
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Gaffshot

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Last I talked with Vegas SMG, he recommended this upper with the tungsten bolt…
https://www.max-11.com/527.php
I use this upper with my M11/9 and CFW bolt. 9mm. I have not timed the rate but it feels about 700 to me. I can easily pull singles. You can also trim the spring a bit to slow it down but I have not done that. I highly recommend the bolts. Really tames the beast. If I didn't already have one then I would be in on this run.
 

Slowmo

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Does anyone have experience using one of the CFW bolts in the Grey Ghost upper? Seems like the end result would be an extremely compact package with a very controllable ROF compared to most other machine pistols. I'm trying to decide between it and the Lage SK, assuming the CFW production run goes through.
 

Jmacken37

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I've had both of those uppers and both are well regarded. The decision should really come down to personal taste/aesthetics.

I still have the MAX-11Sk for whatever that's worth.

MAX11SK-2.jpg
 

Jmacken37

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Just to be clear, I've got multiple Practical Solutions products and find them to be high quality. You really can't go wrong.

As Vegas SMG used to say, these are the good old days. Buy a tungsten bolt (really as many as you can afford) because they will not be around forever!
 

LawBob

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Does anyone have experience using one of the CFW bolts in the Grey Ghost upper? Seems like the end result would be an extremely compact package with a very controllable ROF compared to most other machine pistols. I'm trying to decide between it and the Lage SK, assuming the CFW production run goes through.
Yes. That’s why I bought the GG

My daughter asked me this am if there was such a thing as a mg pistol

So while she was at an event I assembled the baby ghost with the cfwa bolt and an empty 50 zmag.

Don’t get the side accessory rail on the upper. It’s in the way of the upper rail sometimes. I put a Magpul front mbus on the top rail and you can’t activate it to pop up.
 

Homer

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Mine is the original full size cfw bolt. It stays in my grey ghost. I have the mk2 that I shoot sometimes. A never fired 31 and a never fired 31-c. I either shoot the ghost or the m11/15. If lage comes out with another upper I will purchase it but the size of the ghost makes it my goto upper. I bought it over the sk because it is a fraction shorter. Right now my next upper will be the practical Solutions 22 kit.
 

LawBob

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Mine is the original full size cfw bolt. It stays in my grey ghost. I have the mk2 that I shoot sometimes. A never fired 31 and a never fired 31-c. I either shoot the ghost or the m11/15. If lage comes out with another upper I will purchase it but the size of the ghost makes it my goto upper. I bought it over the sk because it is a fraction shorter. Right now my next upper will be the practical Solutions 22 kit.
Mine also but I prefer the mk2 upper

I have the adapter to run it in the mk2
 

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