Gauging interest in an adjustable bolt

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

When wheel wells were modified, original rims were pitched as were original exhaust systems when the bodies were modified to install side pipes (which was another fairly common aftermarket modification). Upgrading the carburation from a single four barrel carb to "three deuces" generally resulted in the original carb and intake manifold being scrapped or sold.
In any case, on the MAC's the hole drilled in the rear plate for the TASK modification was specifically mentioned. And one can only store so many gun parts before the gun room gets full.
MHO, YMMV, etc.

I’ve seen more than one instance where guys are so eager to dress up their gun with the LAGE upper that they purchase the upper before they even get the gun to their FFL/SOT, then when the gun arrives they have their FFL/SOT install the LAGE and let them keep the “old” parts. I’ve seen a guy saying he did this with an original RPB 2 stage too. He also painted his lower receiver to match his LAGE upper… on a powder springs gun….. literally zero interest or respect for the original design. It is just a trigger pack for the 10/15 upper. I wonder if those 10/15 5.56 uppers are eventually gonna beat the shit out of these 50 year old powder springs frames?

 

[Galil#1]

Poor man's M16, for many I reckon?
Hope not, in Lage we trust! Ha!

 

[Homer]

I wonder what it would take to get a thread called off topic and every time something is derailed it could somehow get moved.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

I wonder what it would take to get a thread called off topic and every time something is derailed it could somehow get moved.

It’s not really “derailed”, the concept of not wanting to modify or permanently alter the gun (what is being discussed) is part of what makes OPs bolt more desirable and that is why it’s being discussed in the first place. It’s not like we are talking about the weather. I don’t think there’s much else to be said about OPs bolt until he is willing to actually discuss it, and loosely describe how it works without providing specifics, which he is apparently unable to do yet. It’s kind of difficult to gauge people’s interest in something when you can’t really provide much in the way of details about it. Yes, people are interested in slowing the gun down, but knowing how the thing works, whether or not it’s a complex finicky mechanism or something simple and reliable that can stand up to 1000s of rounds without issue, will also have a major influence on whether or not people are interested. We have 4 pages of people saying they’re interested in a slow fire bolt (which I think everyone knew long before this thread existed, like decades before), god forbid we have 1 page of some discussion about what we are interested in about the upgrade and why. 😒

 

[A&S Conversions]

I mean it was 1986, all transferables will be legally C&R once they are 50 years old, and that occurs in May of 2036, which is only 8 years out.

Sorry, I thought that I could let this go, but I can't. Your math is a little bit off. May 19, 1986 plus 50 years is 2036. But 2036 - 2024 = 12 years not eight 😏.

Scott

 

[Gaujo]

Sorry, I thought that I could let this go, but I can't. Your math is a little bit off. May 19, 1986 plus 50 years is 2036. But 2036 - 2024 = 12 years not eight 😏.

Scott

Lol you're right! Well at least I got the important part right ;-)

Now back on topic, how's the prototype coming?

 

[SecondAmend]

Lol you're right! Well at least I got the important part right ;-)

Now back on topic, how's the prototype coming?

In 3026 years, there may or may not be adjustable bolts. It'll be 5050.

 

[ktk120]

Since were off topic already lol....the 50 years thing starts by the date on the gun if it has one not the year it was registered on the registry right? So a 1973 dated M10 powder springs gun is over 50 right?

 

[skoda]

Year of manufacture.

On a MAC you can tell by the serial number; the first digit after the dash is the last digit of the year of manufacture (more or less*). Ex. 1-3021578 would be a .45 caliber made in 1973 (the 1 before the dash is the model, .45 caliber M-10 in this case; the 3 after the dash is for 1973). {Ref. Mac Man page 154]

*apparently guns were batch registered, usually before hand, so some might have been registered and then actually manufactured. I would just try to avoid claiming that your gun is a C&R the day that you think that it was made. In 2024 it's probably safe to say that all '3' guns are over 50 years old.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Year of manufacture.

On a MAC you can tell by the serial number; the first digit after the dash is the last digit of the year of manufacture (more or less*). Ex. 1-3021578 would be a .45 caliber made in 1973 (the 1 before the dash is the model, .45 caliber M-10 in this case; the 3 after the dash is for 1973). {Ref. Mac Man page 154]

*apparently guns were batch registered, usually before hand, so some might have been registered and then actually manufactured. I would just try to avoid claiming that your gun is a C&R the day that you think that it was made. In 2024 it's probably safe to say that all '3' guns are over 50 years old.

There were handfuls of the powder springs frames that were papered and never assembled into complete firearms by MAC, they were sold at auction as everyone knows and then RPB built up a lot of them in the late 70s and early 80s… but a lot of people don’t realize that SWD built up some powder springs guns even later on in the mid to late 80s. So there were incomplete powder springs guns being manufactured for sure as recently as the late 80s… and I suspect there are some that have been manufactured from original MAC papered frames much much more recently than that…

 

[A&S Conversions]

There were handfuls of the powder springs frames that were papered and never assembled into complete firearms by MAC, they were sold at auction as everyone knows and then RPB built up a lot of them in the late 70s and early 80s… but a lot of people don’t realize that SWD built up some powder springs guns even later on in the mid to late 80s. So there were incomplete powder springs guns being manufactured for sure as recently as the late 80s… and I suspect there are some that have been manufactured from original MAC papered frames much much more recently than that…

The big thing would be, when was the Form 2 entered into the NFA Registry? It is not about becoming a completed firearm. It would be when the receiver flat was formed into a machinegun receiver and registered into the NFA Registry. I understand that back in the day, many manufacturers were not so uptight about filing Form 2s. I would think that the owner of each receiver could file a FOIA inquiry to the ATF. They would receive records of all the transfers with the names and addresses redacted. All except the original Form 2 listing the date the receiver was registered. The ATF will go by their records, not by the markings on the receiver. At least that is my understanding of the process.

Scott

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

The big thing would be, when was the Form 2 entered into the NFA Registry? It is not about becoming a completed firearm. It would be when the receiver flat was formed into a machinegun receiver and registered into the NFA Registry. I understand that back in the day, many manufacturers were not so uptight about filing Form 2s. I would think that the owner of each receiver could file a FOIA inquiry to the ATF. They would receive records of all the transfers with the names and addresses redacted. All except the original Form 2 listing the date the receiver was registered. The ATF will go by their records, not by the markings on the receiver. At least that is my understanding of the process.

Scott

Well since this thread is no longer about the adjustable bolt, I’ll just go ahead and respond here, though this would make a good thread of its own, lots of interesting discussion to be had about transferable pre-86 MACs that were Assembled post 86… SWD did Texas guns, Jersey guns, and even some powder springs.

The guns in question would all be pre-86 transferable no matter when they were full assembled/completed. On paper the “machine gun” was completed whenever the receiver was completed, anything else is irrelevant.

So all those MAC frames that were papered in 1974 but assembled in 1987-88 are fully transferable, it’s like the stemple tubes… same deal. I personally think there are some powder springs M10s that I’ve seen being sold on the transferable market that appear to be very recently assembled, or at the very least completely refurbished from the ground up, rewelded and assembled with all brand new innards, though i find it odd than none of the original components besides the receivers are anywhere to be seen.

It makes me wonder if there could still be a box or 2 of those old MAC frames that may have turned up in the hands of a dealer/manufacturer who has completed a few and sold them. I believe those leftover frames were often not even finished frames, many were just numbered and papered “scoop” sections that still required the magwell and sight plate etc.

Wayne Daniel welded up some of the old frames RPB “cobray” style with the trigger guard tacked to the grip, and the easiest way to distinguish those late 80s SWD powder springs guns is that they’re BLACK phosphate, and have Cobray marks on the top of the upper…. Among a few other differences.

Late 80s transferable powder springs gun built by SWD

 

[Slowmo]

Oooow getting really warm

What ever happened with this project?

 

[A&S Conversions]

When the team is small and the R&D is coming out of your pocket, it can be tough to coordinate subcontractors. It took a year from sending in the prototype, getting approval (that was only 108 days), and then prototyping the aluminum version of the Tenko 10-16 adapter , and testing (which took about two months). The rest of the year was mostly getting a slot with the machine shop, gathering the parts from several different suppliers, and another subcontractor doing some custom detents that I could not find commercially. On top of that, I would imagine that the machined bolt parts must be heat treated, which is a whole other issue.

I avoided the “where is the project at” by not announcing the Tenko project until the adapter had been completed, tested, and submitted. Unless you are a machinist, with access to a complete shop, you are waiting on others availability. Even then, there can be other hold ups. I mean no disrespect, but what happened to the Ultimac? Bringing a product to market is very hard if you are not SIG or FN. Even with their resources, some times it takes awhile. I would think that he will get back to us when he has something to report.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions

 

[gorillastomp]

It’s still going. I was hoping to be much farther along too. We had to out source one freaking part and is taking months to get it!