Galils Israeli War

[Sidewinder]

Viewing TV coverage of soldiers in Israeli War, I expected to see newer version Galils, but what I predominately see are old style M16s. Surprised me. Any comments on why?

 

[sniperdoc]

Just my guess, but since so many Reservists are being called up, who are (presumably) armed with older weapons and gear, those are the ones on TV

 

[Ed L]

I don't think Israel uses the new versions of the Galil. They are strictly for export.

 

[deadduck]

I'm wanting to see their Tavor TS12 in action.

 

[Pavia]

The only weapon I see in units from elite spec ops to police reserves is overwhelmingly the M4. I saw one or two photos of an IDF unit armed with X95s, but that is a rare exception. And zero Galil Aces, but I believe the Ace is purely an export weapon. I don’t know of any Israeli force that uses it, and I don’t think it’s available for private purchase within Israel.

Clearly the M-16/AR-15 is the choice for most of the IDF and Israeli security forces. Tavors seem to be phased out, judging by combat images.

On the other hand… Hamas has some nice use of the AK-103. And their underfolder AKs are in great shape. Looking to see if they are using any AK-104s.

 

[Sidewinder]

I've read that IDF is transitioning from X95 back to M4 and that X95 bullpup design was not popular with soldiers. That would explain, as Pavia point out in his post, why Tavors are not commonly seen in recent news footage of IDF forces.

 

[INV136]

The majority of Israeli soldiers that I've seen on TV are carrying Tavors. I've seen a few really old looking M4's, but, mostly Tavors.

 

[gekishibu86]

I’ve seen both M4 and Tavors and once Galil SARs.

 

[boscoman]

The country was flooded years ago with M4s & they are used mostly by soldiers that were originally trained with them. The X95 is still the 1st line rifle of the IDF. During my last few visits that was the rifle I saw the majority of soldiers with. The Galil was phased out years ago. The ACE is an export only. The last units to use the Galil were armor because they were shorter than the M4 with the stock folded & that made it easier to get in & out of vehicles/tanks.
The story that the Tavor was being phased out for the M4 was squashed very quickly after it came out. The IDF had actually just placed an order for more X95s the week that BS story came out.
As to the ability to purchase a rifle in Israel, anything over 22 LR was considered a military caliber & was illegal. There were a number of years when volunteer snipers could have 7.62 rifles & some people lucky enough to get a hunting license could also. They stopped handing out hunting licenses a few years ago & most of the people that I knew that were volunteer snipers said that for the most part that opportunity is now gone (if someone knows otherwise please feel free to correct me).

 

[sniperdoc]

The country was flooded years ago with M4s & they are used mostly by soldiers that were originally trained with them. The X95 is still the 1st line rifle of the IDF. During my last few visits that was the rifle I saw the majority of soldiers with. The Galil was phased out years ago. The ACE is an export only. The last units to use the Galil were armor because they were shorter than the M4 with the stock folded & that made it easier to get in & out of vehicles/tanks.
The story that the Tavor was being phased out for the M4 was squashed very quickly after it came out. The IDF had actually just placed an order for more X95s the week that BS story came out.
As to the ability to purchase a rifle in Israel, anything over 22 LR was considered a military caliber & was illegal. There were a number of years when volunteer snipers could have 7.62 rifles & some people lucky enough to get a hunting license could also. They stopped handing out hunting licenses a few years ago & most of the people that I knew that were volunteer snipers said that for the most part that opportunity is now gone (if someone knows otherwise please feel free to correct me).

You'd think a nation surrounded by enemies would encourage gun ownership

 

[boscoman]

You'd think a nation surrounded by enemies would encourage gun ownership

You would think. The next Israeli that tells me they don't need guns because the police or army will protect them gets punched in the mouth. :>I

 

[sniperdoc]

You would think. The next Israeli that tells me they don't need guns because the police or army will protect them gets punched in the mouth. :>I

Their ancestors in Europe thought that

 

[INV136]

The Israelis are not just surrounded by enemies, they are in a constant state of war. Hamas are liars and can never be trusted with abiding by Cease Fires. It just seems counter intuitive that the Israeli govt would enact laws banning law abiding citizens (the same citizens that are subject to being called up for military service because of the constant state of war) from possessing any firearms. Especially those residing anywhere near Gaza or the West Bank or Lebanon or Syrian borders.

That's asinine. Maybe this massacre will teach their lawmakers a valuable lesson. Maybe not. Whenever we have a mass shooting here in the US, our corrupt lawmakers immediately attempt to use the blood of the murdered for political capital in order to try and ban the law abiding citizens from possessing firearms. Knowing full well that criminals don't abide by laws and would continue to violate them because murder is already a crime and that doesn't stop them from murdering people. Which means that new firearms possession bans would not have any effect on stopping criminals from committing murder. But, then demokrats already know this and only use these murders as as means to ban firearms so that they can eventually emasculate the public so they can be controlled by demokrats in power.

 

[Sidewinder]

The country was flooded years ago with M4s & they are used mostly by soldiers that were originally trained with them. The X95 is still the 1st line rifle of the IDF. During my last few visits that was the rifle I saw the majority of soldiers with. The Galil was phased out years ago. The ACE is an export only. The last units to use the Galil were armor because they were shorter than the M4 with the stock folded & that made it easier to get in & out of vehicles/tanks.
The story that the Tavor was being phased out for the M4 was squashed very quickly after it came out. The IDF had actually just placed an order for more X95s the week that BS story came out.
As to the ability to purchase a rifle in Israel, anything over 22 LR was considered a military caliber & was illegal. There were a number of years when volunteer snipers could have 7.62 rifles & some people lucky enough to get a hunting license could also. They stopped handing out hunting licenses a few years ago & most of the people that I knew that were volunteer snipers said that for the most part that opportunity is now gone (if someone knows otherwise please feel free to correct me).

Thanks. Didn't know the story that Tavor was being phased out was inaccurate.

 

[Deerhurst]

Thanks. Didn't know the story that Tavor was being phased out was inaccurate.

I have experience with the X95. It's not accurate. It's battle accurate but that it. Maybe 3MOA on a good day. Groups opened up quite a bit when my buddy SBR'd his. He doesn't even shoot it anymore as he is so disappointed in it.

 

[dubagel]

That’s probably why if you look at the latest orders of the IDF x95 model put into service has a 15”-16” barrel, modified US SBR picantinny handguard, and the full length SBR picantinny top rail, and pistol grip, not the “AUG” type.

 

[Deerhurst]

That’s probably why if you look at the latest orders of the IDF x95 model put into service has a 15”-16” barrel, modified US SBR picantinny handguard, and the full length SBR picantinny top rail, and pistol grip, not the “AUG” type.

Barrel length means very little in most cases. My 10.5" AR in 5.56 stomps that 13" barrel in the SBR X95. My 8" tokarev AR stomps the 13" X95 in accuracy.

Hell, my buddies own 6arc 14" SBR AR blows anything else out of the water, except the custom 338 laupa bolt gun, in terms.of accuracy. It is sub minute. I can do sub minute 5 round groups at 700 yards with that rifle.


I don't think it's the barrel length. I have seen groups tighten up after chopping a barrel.

 

[dubagel]

The terminal velocity and impact energy is also a function of barrel length was also a reason for the change.

 

[Deerhurst]

The terminal velocity and impact energy is also a function of barrel length was also a reason for the change.

Terminal velocity is a function of distance travelled and in a very small way, air density. Impact energy is also affected the same way as F=MA.

This can be mitigated some with different powder burn rates but that gets into custom ammo.

All things the same a shorter barrel will have a lower muzzle velocity and in turn less muzzle energy (let's assume 5.56x45 as some cartridges will perform better in a shorter barrel and slow down in a longer barrel due to powder burn rates), that is true. As long as you stabilize the projectile you should be just fine for accuracy. Lots of more and less scientific tests have been done with this. The 6ARC I mented before, the 14.5" shoots way better than the 18". Better barrel in every way too. more consistently manufactured barrel will shoot better than a high tolerance barrel. A Noveske barrel better shoot better than a bear creek barrel. Even chrome lined vs nitride can affect accuracy as it is difficult to lay chrome down a bore as consistently as nitride can be done. Better/more consistent surface finish. Even mounting and anything touching the barrel can effect accuracy.

There is a lot more to accuracy than just velocities.

 

[sweersa]

I remember when Tavors first came to the US, everyone acted like they were the best thing since sliced bread. If I ever get a bull pup, it will be a Steyr AUG. An SOT somewhat recently tried to sell me a Tavor in 308. No thanks.