FRT status?

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ericthered

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Anybody know the current status of FRT and rare breed? Last I heard ATF was bullying, but the actual law still is the same that they are a semi automatic.
 

slimshady

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DOJ/ATf sez some FRT triggers are MG "conversion devices" just like an AR15 DIAS and as such even by themselves with no gun they are an unregistered MG. This is based on their interpretation/re-interpretation of the actual law which states if a "single function of the trigger" discharges more than one shot automatically it is an MG. FRT triggers and others of course require the trigger to move/reset between shots so by the actual letter of the law and ATF's long time determination that single function means a pull OR a release none of these are MGs. ATF now sez a single pressure by the trigger finger is the same as the trigger, which of course is not in the law but is now apparently headed for the actual published regs.

AFAIK ATF has raided and/or shut down at least one maker and reports have come in of agents visiting some end users and demanding they surrender them or face charges.

Personally if I was contemplating the purchase of one I would hold off until this has passed into a court case that will be decided under Bruen and the recent watering down of Chevron Deference, both of which should reign in ATF's enforcement of an obviously wrong interpretation of the law. If I already owned one I would make damn sure I no longer had it until this all shakes out.
 

root

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This popped up on my U tube feed about them just a few minutes ago so I watched it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkTGlfgv3hg

TL;DW.....

The vid covers how they obtained the list of names to go visit.

The very few that have been confiscated by the batfe bois and how they got the customer list.

They got it from gunbroker. By buying one trigger and then pressuring the sellers for the buyers info.

Just that easy, no warrant ,no computers confiscated. Just a veiled threat from "the man"

Our tax dollars spent on items that will be used to burn tax payers, by tax agents, with a purchase that is legal.

No purchase history has been divulged or turned over by rare breed or big daddy as of yet.

That about sums it up.

And with that said...........

Were these things even popular due to the high price?
I know the guys on arfcom were bragging them up that they were indeed all that and a side of salsa, at 450 or what ever they were.

I've never met anyone with one.
I know they work and how they work I've seen all the vids on U tube and forum sites.

I couldn't justify spending that on that kind of item.
More so when I was on the list for the Lage 10-15 upper.
Turned out to be a good call since if I remember correctly these started to gain attention with the batfe about the time Lage got the upper approved and I was pretty early on the list too.

Don't get me wrong I paid more then twice the price for the upper then I did the M10 so that was very hard to swallow.
But the Lage reputation and being early on the list made it easier.
Even more easy when guys started getting them and they were running 100% accept for the guys that are tinkering with them.
I just knew out of the box I was getting a solid item.

My advice would be the same as slimshady

1:Wait for the mess to play out.
2: buy private F2F
3: order direct from RB since he purges all records in 24 hrs ( from his mouth in one of his vids)

If you are someone that bought one of these triggers off of GB expect a visit.

Option 1: is probably the best way not to waste 450 bux

Will the real slimshady please stand up, PLEASE stand UP!

ETA:
This isn't a political post I swear.
Just how they got the info they got, and from who.

ETA yet again.

afrcom vid with the same info and a bit more on RB and the batfe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3NRCoecLnk
 
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ericthered

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Very interesting. I havent had time to watch the videos. Will when I get a chance. Wouldnt surprise me if these went the way of bumpstocks...
So just thinking, if they do actually change the law from trigger actuation to continuous pressure, wouldnt that make gatling guns illegal then? As those are a continuous pressure.
 

slimshady

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Only Congress can change a law, all ATF can do is re-write a regulation based on the existing law. Courts generally apply what is called "Chevron Deference", which means if a statute is ambiguous, the agency charged with writing the regs for it is given the presumption by the Court that their interpretation is the correct one. A recent WV case where WV sued the EPA over some new electric power regs was decided in WV's favor, reigning in Chevron somewhat. That plus the Bruen case applying a legal test to all gun laws, a test which sets a very high bar, means a lot of regs and laws are going to be overturned in the future.

As for Gatling guns, part of the definition of MG is it fires shots automatically, without manual reloading. The crank action is what reloads the Gatling for each shot so does not meet the definition. Of course the FRT triggers and bumpstocks don't either, so...
 

SecondAmend

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The FRT has the same sort of illegality as did the original Akins Accelerator stock (not the later, neutered version).

MHO, YMMV, etc.
 

slimshady

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The FRT triggers simply replace a spring pushing the trigger forward after a semi auto shot with a mechanical means of doing the same thing. The actual law and the regs until this re-write stated a single function of the trigger is required for FA. The FRT is not pulling the trigger for you to initiate firing, it is forcing the trigger to reset AFTER you fired the shot with the single function of the trigger. You finger is pulling the trigger each time for each shot, making it a semi auto trigger. To be full auto under the law as it was written you would have to hold the trigger back and without it moving forward again, fire the second shot. This not what FRT triggers do. Now, some things like the "shoestring trick" are using an external mechanism to pull and release the trigger, in that case the definition of trigger means "the part that is activated to start the firing sequence", which with a shoestring would be the end that is pulled to start firing. A "stutter gun" that has no trigger, the bolt handle you release to fire is the trigger. Etc.

This new definition redefines MGs as the action your trigger finger is taking, not what the trigger is doing. Fingers are mentioned nowhere in the actual law, only trigger actions. There is no legal basis for the re-definition, at least according to all the lawyers who are fighting it.
 
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