Early ‘83 Cobray Semi

[SSPRacing]

New here, been a MAC fan nearly my entire life. Owned a few in the past and just acquired a couple more. Question on this ‘83 m11/9. Do you think this was a magwell conversion or factory built for the Sten mags? Prior to this auction I’d only ever observed these early pattern Cobrays in movies. Had plenty of the normal later z mag versions.

 

[MAC MAN]

That is Factory. Get The Mac Man book.

 

[SSPRacing]

That is Factory. Get The Mac Man book.

That’s what I figured. Knew I’d seen them like this before somewhere a long time ago. Will grab the book as well, Frank I’s work is awesome.

Looking forward to playing with this one in a few weeks.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

100% factory early gun and the magwell is not the only difference from the later models. The early 83 guns also had a totally different bolt assembly than the standard production guns, it has a cast bolt assembly and uses modified sten mags. That gun you bought was a consignment piece that belonged to an acquaintance of mine, I know he had one of the original Cobray marked modified sten magazines for that gun and it’s likely included in the listing with it.

PS, i do have my doubts you have ever seen one of these early first gen cobray 11/9s in a movie, there were only a few 100 of them made as far as I know and to spot the slightly different features would be pretty tough. IMFDB is a great website, has every single gun featured in every single movie in a Wikipedia style platform with user submissions and screenshots from the films. Believe it or not the Cobray M11/9 has never been very popular on the silver screen… the M10 is king of the box office, even the little 380 has rarely gotten any screen time.

That is a very cool collectible gun you got there, take good care of it and don’t alter or modify it, there are plenty of inexpensive production guns made between 1984 and 1994 to screw around with, please leave that gun as is!

 

[SSPRacing]

100% factory early gun and the magwell is not the only difference from the later models. The early 83 guns also had a totally different bolt assembly than the standard production guns, it has a cast bolt assembly and uses modified sten mags. That gun you bought was a consignment piece that belonged to an acquaintance of mine, I know he had one of the original Cobray marked modified sten magazines for that gun and it’s likely included in the listing with it.

PS, i do have my doubts you have ever seen one of these early first gen cobray 11/9s in a movie, there were only a few 100 of them made as far as I know and to spot the slightly different features would be pretty tough. IMFDB is a great website, has every single gun featured in every single movie in a Wikipedia style platform with user submissions and screenshots from the films. Believe it or not the Cobray M11/9 has never been very popular on the silver screen… the M10 is king of the box office, even the little 380 has rarely gotten any screen time.

That is a very cool collectible gun you got there, take good care of it and don’t alter or modify it, there are plenty of inexpensive production guns made between 1984 and 1994 to screw around with, please leave that gun as is!

Thank you for all of the great info. I sent you a private message.

 

[Tinman45]

100% factory early gun and the magwell is not the only difference from the later models. The early 83 guns also had a totally different bolt assembly than the standard production guns, it has a cast bolt assembly and uses modified sten mags. That gun you bought was a consignment piece that belonged to an acquaintance of mine, I know he had one of the original Cobray marked modified sten magazines for that gun and it’s likely included in the listing with it.

PS, i do have my doubts you have ever seen one of these early first gen cobray 11/9s in a movie, there were only a few 100 of them made as far as I know and to spot the slightly different features would be pretty tough. IMFDB is a great website, has every single gun featured in every single movie in a Wikipedia style platform with user submissions and screenshots from the films. Believe it or not the Cobray M11/9 has never been very popular on the silver screen… the M10 is king of the box office, even the little 380 has rarely gotten any screen time.

That is a very cool collectible gun you got there, take good care of it and don’t alter or modify it, there are plenty of inexpensive production guns made between 1984 and 1994 to screw around with, please leave that gun as is!

One was prominent in Lethal Weapon 3, but misidentified in dialogue as a MAC 10.

 

[SSPRacing]

One was prominent in Lethal Weapon 3, but misidentified in dialogue as a MAC 10.

The Cobray in lethal weapon 3 wasn’t an early pattern gun. Took z mags, long ejection port and flat cocking handle. But RIP Darryl nonetheless 😂😂. That movie was the pinnacle of 90’s AWB propaganda.

 

[Tinman45]

The Cobray in lethal weapon 3 wasn’t an early pattern gun. Took z mags, long ejection port and flat cocking handle. But RIP Darryl nonetheless 😂😂. That movie was the pinnacle of 90’s AWB propaganda.

Yeah, can’t argue that. That was also when they launched into the whole idea that Renee Russo could totally beat up multiple male felons because she knew karate. As my father would say: “Shit, I was believin’ it, up ‘til then.”

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

The Cobray in lethal weapon 3 wasn’t an early pattern gun. Took z mags, long ejection port and flat cocking handle. But RIP Darryl nonetheless 😂😂. That movie was the pinnacle of 90’s AWB propaganda.

Z mags totally did not exist when Danny Glover was still making movies…. 😅 the ejection port was never visibly smaller, it was smaller by a few fractions of an inch but nothing that is actually detectable by the eye. This movie was from 92, and in one year CMP would release their single feed steel M11/9 mags… but Z-mags weren’t even a gleam in somebody’s eye in 1992.

It does take zytel mags, looks like officer glover may have also been rocking a DeSantis MAC Skatter rig under his jacket with those studs on his 11/9.

The gun itself isn’t a first gen, but it’s not the 1986 iteration either… it’s probably an 84-85 gun.

hockey puck charging handle, possibly captive strap hanger (can’t see close enough but I’m not seeing the larger barrel lug or the snap ring) , small M11 front sight ears. Mind you, guns with those earlier uppers were popping up as late as 89, so it was a crapshoot and they may have found a random box here or there and threw them into the mix, but for the most part, those features only popped up on the non-1986 guns (most all of the SMGs are from 86 and they’re converted semi auto frames with the holes welded over)

 

[Tinman45]

Z mags totally did not exist when Danny Glover was still making movies…. 😅 the ejection port was never visibly smaller, it was smaller by a few fractions of an inch but nothing that is actually detectable by the eye. This movie was from 92, and in one year CMP would release their single feed steel M11/9 mags… but Z-mags weren’t even a gleam in somebody’s eye in 1992.

It does take zytel mags, looks like officer glover may have also been rocking a DeSantis MAC Skatter rig under his jacket with those studs on his 11/9.

The gun itself isn’t a first gen, but it’s not the 1986 iteration either… it’s probably an 84-85 gun.

hockey puck charging handle, possibly captive strap hanger (can’t see close enough but I’m not seeing the larger barrel lug or the snap ring) , small M11 front sight ears. Mind you, guns with those earlier uppers were popping up as late as 89, so it was a crapshoot and they may have found a random box here or there and threw them into the mix, but for the most part, those features only popped up on the non-1986 guns (most all of the SMGs are from 86 and they’re converted semi auto frames with the holes welded over)

Don‘t some of the prop houses also have dealer posties cobbled together from all kinds of parts-bin shit?

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Don‘t some of the prop houses also have dealer posties cobbled together from all kinds of parts-bin shit?

Yeah for sure, but the majority of the MACs I’ve seen in movies are factory guns with markings etc… often RPB M10 SAP, like “escape from New York”.

So yes, my previous post is assuming the gun is still factory original, which in the case of those prop rental places is very likely especially in 92, the guns were still cheap and plentiful in 92. They purchased NIB M11/9s by the dozen at those prop houses and they probably had no need to modify them.

 

[Tinman45]

Yeah for sure, but the majority of the MACs I’ve seen in movies are factory guns with markings etc… often RPB M10 SAP, like “escape from New York”.

So yes, my previous post is assuming the gun is still factory original, which in the case of those prop rental places is very likely especially in 92, the guns were still cheap and plentiful in 92. They purchased NIB M11/9s by the dozen at those prop houses and they probably had no need to modify them.

Thank you.

 

[SSPRacing]

Z mags totally did not exist when Danny Glover was still making movies…. 😅 the ejection port was never visibly smaller, it was smaller by a few fractions of an inch but nothing that is actually detectable by the eye. This movie was from 92, and in one year CMP would release their single feed steel M11/9 mags… but Z-mags weren’t even a gleam in somebody’s eye in 1992.

It does take zytel mags, looks like officer glover may have also been rocking a DeSantis MAC Skatter rig under his jacket with those studs on his 11/9.

The gun itself isn’t a first gen, but it’s not the 1986 iteration either… it’s probably an 84-85 gun.

hockey puck charging handle, possibly captive strap hanger (can’t see close enough but I’m not seeing the larger barrel lug or the snap ring) , small M11 front sight ears. Mind you, guns with those earlier uppers were popping up as late as 89, so it was a crapshoot and they may have found a random box here or there and threw them into the mix, but for the most part, those features only popped up on the non-1986 guns (most all of the SMGs are from 86 and they’re converted semi auto frames with the holes welded over)

View attachment 39991
View attachment 39992

Meant zytel mags. And man I can tell the difference in ejection port shape, say between the one I just got and a standard later m11/9.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Meant zytel mags. And man I can tell the difference in ejection port shape, say between the one I just got and a standard later m11/9.

Yeah you’re right, I can too. It’s smaller than I had remembered




There’s a number of differences on the earlier uppers as well as tons of later uppers built with various early parts. A lot of the 11/9 uppers are Frankenstein made from whatever they had in the parts bins.

Here’s a few of the most noticeable differences

Cocking slots, the early guns had the charging handle hole about 2/3 down the slot, it is in the same location as the M11a1 .380 with an additional inch or so of length milled behind it. At some point in 84-85 they started to mill the slot with the hole at the end of it, the hole towards the middle was causing jams when the old style handle would rotate slightly at the hole and lock itself.




Front sights and barrel lugs. Early uppers had M11 front sight ears, later uppers had m10 front sight ears. Early barrel lugs were relief cut for the strap hanger and it was held captive by the barrel, later barrels had a 1” lug with a groove for a snap ring and a “easy install” hanger. The early semi barrels had no provision for a strap hanger.




Here’s one that only applies to the earliest first gen upper. The bottom of the upper has not been relief cut to allow clearance of the zytel magazine (center). Despite the early SMG using the zytel, the upper did not have to be cut open for it because the early cast bolt had a longer feeding surface, it reached further down and the magazine didn’t have to be inserted as far. You really have to smack the shit out of the mag to get it to catch with that upper if you use a standard production mag catch. The mag catch needs to be filed slightly with those early uppers.




And of course ejection port like we already touched on.




there were also 2 different logo stamps on the top of the uppers, the earliest uppers had no logo stamp at all .


Earlier stamp



Later stamp




Now with all this said, there was absolutely no rhyme or reason to these uppers. I’ve had extremely early uppers that have every early feature but then the later style logo stamp and I’ve had later uppers with mostly all early features. You will see all sorts of random combinations of these parts. I also didn’t mention the bolts because that’s a whole other subject.

 

[SSPRacing]

F

Yeah you’re right, I can too. It’s smaller than I had remembered

View attachment 39994


There’s a number of differences on the earlier uppers as well as tons of later uppers built with various early parts. A lot of the 11/9 uppers are Frankenstein made from whatever they had in the parts bins.

Here’s a few of the most noticeable differences

Cocking slots, the early guns had the charging handle hole about 2/3 down the slot, it is in the same location as the M11a1 .380 with an additional inch or so of length milled behind it. At some point in 84-85 they started to mill the slot with the hole at the end of it, the hole towards the middle was causing jams when the old style handle would rotate slightly at the hole and lock itself.

View attachment 39995


Front sights and barrel lugs. Early uppers had M11 front sight ears, later uppers had m10 front sight ears. Early barrel lugs were relief cut for the strap hanger and it was held captive by the barrel, later barrels had a 1” lug with a groove for a snap ring and a “easy install” hanger. The early semi barrels had no provision for a strap hanger.

View attachment 39996


Here’s one that only applies to the earliest first gen upper. The bottom of the upper has not been relief cut to allow clearance of the zytel magazine (center). Despite the early SMG using the zytel, the upper did not have to be cut open for it because the early cast bolt had a longer feeding surface, it reached further down and the magazine didn’t have to be inserted as far. You really have to smack the shit out of the mag to get it to catch with that upper if you use a standard production mag catch. The mag catch needs to be filed slightly with those early uppers.

View attachment 39997


And of course ejection port like we already touched on.

View attachment 39998


there were also 2 different logo stamps on the top of the uppers, the earliest uppers had no logo stamp at all .


Earlier stamp
View attachment 39999


Later stamp
View attachment 40000



Now with all this said, there was absolutely no rhyme or reason to these uppers. I’ve had extremely early uppers that have every early feature but then the later style logo stamp and I’ve had later uppers with mostly all early features. You will see all sorts of random combinations of these parts. I also didn’t mention the bolts because that’s a whole other subject.

Fantastic info, thanks for posting. This type of data has been pretty scarce.

 

[BlackBelt]

I've learned more on this thread than I have in a long time. Thanks for you guys expertise

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Here’s the one that’s all early features, early slot, early barrel, early ears, later style stamp. Strap is very early SWD as well, made with the same exact heavy webbing material RPB used but with the snaps reversed SWD style. Early SWD was RPB.

 

[Gaujo]

MWG I do believe you are single handedly making macs collectible.