Brown Bear 0mm ammo through M11/9 with Lage MK2 Max11 and Max31 upper

[mhaun5]

So...

I have a deal right now where I can get (in bulk quantity) Brown Bear ammo.

For those not familiar, it is a 115 grain 9mm FMJ that has a Lacquered Steel Case. Obviously non-reloadable/non-corrosive/facotry rounds.

They shoot 1180 FPS and have 356 ft-lbs muzzle energy.

I am able to get this ammo at 14c per round, hence the interest.

Issue: my M11/9 and Lage uppers are still in jail (Form 3 to Form 3); so I have no idea if it will eat it or not. Ugh! This isn't a deal where I just buy a little and test, it is buy a lot and gamble or not.

What say you? Yay or Nay?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[ATCDoktor]

I can't speak to its use in the MAC platform but I have fired several thousand rounds of that exact ammo through my full sized FA UZI with no issues.

It's standard Russian fare, reliable and sure fire that shoots somewhat dirty and smells funny when fired.

In the thousands i rounds I have fired I have never had a squib or OOB issue.

If it were me and I could get it for 14 cents a fund I would but all I could afford.

All that said, I dont believe Lage warranties their uppers for use with steel cases ammo, so if that's an issue for you, you might want to think over a large purchase prior to committing (if it's use is going to primarily for the lage products).

 

[IndustrialRescue]

This thread is relevant to my interests. I'm hoping to run steel case in my M11/9

 

[ChuckB]

The problem is the magazine, not the gun. Oh and if you run it suppressed, it tastes awful.

In short, the brass ammo slides easier than the steel case. This is what happens:

I have had some luck spraying the inside of 30-rd Z-Mags with "DGF" (dry graphite film from NAPA).

On the Max-31, these run fine in a Suomi drum in my experience. Like 100%.

I have considered having some Z-Mags NiB-X coated.

EDIT:
Strangely steel case runs 100% out of the two PAM2 mags that came with my gun. I always put 25 in both of them.

The Maglula/Uplula loader is an absolute must to load PAM2's.

 

[Beowulf]

I've run tons of that stuff (along with Wolf and TulaAmmo) through my AMP-10 with Suomi mags and drums and it runs perfectly. But as ChuckB indicates, depending on how the mags works, that can be a bigger downfall. For example, in my stock M10/45 upper, I shoot a lot of TulAmmo and Wolf steel cased .45. The Grease Gun mags are a pain to load with steel cases, since the polymer coating on the rounds tends to have a higher coefficient of friction than a brass or even a zinc coated case (like Silver Bear). Once you get it loaded though, they run fine in my gun.

 

[pmf]

Brown Bear is standard Russian ammo, pretty much the same as Wolf Silver Bear, Tula, etc. I've shot a bunch of it through my Uzi and my M11/9 with a Lage upper. Never had any problems. It's dirty and smells kinda funny, but goes bang every time. Some folks don't like steel cased ammo, or lacquer covered ammo, and it does void the Lage warranty (how could anyone tell?), but at $140/case, I'd advise you to buy all you can afford -- that's a really good price. Care to share it?

 

[DistalRadius]

It's standard Russian fare, reliable and sure fire that shoots somewhat dirty and smells funny when fired.

In the thousands i rounds I have fired I have never had a squib or OOB issue.

If it were me and I could get it for 14 cents a fund I would but all I could afford.

These three points were exactly what I was going to say. I have run tons of the stuff through my M11/9, Max-11, and Max31. I had more failures with US manufactured brass-cased ammo.

FYI, the use of steel case ammo voids the warranty only on the Lage uppers that use the original magwell (Max-11 series) and not the uppers that use Suomi mags (Max-31 series) due to the danger of a out of battery detonation.

Richard's explanation:

It comes down to performance in stick magazines. My experience has been that steel cased 9mm ammo does not flow up the magazine consistently and smoothly. If the round does not reach the feed lips in time when the bolt is coming back forward, the gun will have a feed jam. Worse, if it shoves the projectile into the case (telescoping the round) and proceeds to feed the round, it will create an overpressure condition and possible out of battery detonation or stretched barrel chamber. This can damage the upper receiver and barrel. A stretched barrel chamber is not obvious, but will cause failure to extract problems and short stroking.

Steel case 9mm ammo when used in drum magazines does not present this problem, since the drum has a stronger spring, less friction and consistently feeds the rounds.

 

[pjm204]

I want brown bear for 14c a round! I'll buy A LOT! PM me if that is possible please.

 

[IndustrialRescue]

I want brown bear for 14c a round! I'll buy A LOT! PM me if that is possible please.

Indeed. Me too.

 

[timkel]

Tula 45 runs well but I have had a few squibs.

 

[quasimodem]

I asked about this before and apparently steel ammo will void your warranty on your upper.

see this thread
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?78237-Why-is-Steel-cased-ammo-bad-for-Lage-uppers

 

[ChuckB]

Truthfully the upper is the cheapest part of the equation. What I mean is the lower and total cost of ammo far exceed the cost of the upper. If I void the warranty, and I have, I will happily pay Lage to fix or replace it. Truthfully they should have charged me for the last repair. I told Jackie that, and it just showed up fixed. So I feel like I owe them for one anyway.

 

[D-boy]

Never had any problems. It's dirty and smells kinda funny, but goes bang every time.

It's Snookie ammo?

 

[Rag9]

It's Snookie ammo?

^^^lol

 

[Chrisok1]

Steel runs great for me in m11(.380), pam2 mags and drums. It always goes bang and almost never malfunctions. I shoot steel case in all our local matches.

 

[MedBro]

Seriously! Where the hell are you finding 9mm of any variety for 14 cpr? That's a steal!

 

[quasimodem]

I could use some more at 14 cpr

 

[robertmcm]

Jackie told me that the list of things that voids the warranty does not include steel case ammo anymore

 

[ChuckB]

At $.14 each can I get 10k please?

 

[pjm204]

At $.14 each can I get 10k please?

I'll take 10k too!