Anybody owned FA American 180 or 10/22?

[Gaujo]

Got to shoot a postie ruger 10/22 last weekend and was really enjoying shooting bulk .22 full auto. Anybody owned a norrell trigger pack 10/22 and or American 180 and can give feedback on what they are like to own? ie how finnicky are they etc?

Trying to get a lay of the land on transferable .22s

 

[mattnh]

I own both.

10/22 is fun & cheap to shoot

180mags are a pita to load, but there is new
fully Automated loader that seems to work pretty well

22 is pretty dirty round -
You’ll need to clean the guns regularly

Dunno, I enjoy shooting 9mm more

 

[Cortland]

I'm going to cheerfully answer a question you didn't necessarily ask (😁) and share that an M16 is a good alternative for both of these.

As a FA 10/22 stand in, my CMMG/BoreBuddy .22 conversion is super reliable and probably my favorite configuration for my M16.

As an American 180 stand in, my Tactical Innovations AM-15 upper has been great and will do a mean drum dump. Swapping out the regular M16 FCG for the open bolt FCG that the AM-15 needs is a little tedious, but only a little.

The M16 is where it's at for FA .22, IMO.

 

[nklf]

My 1022 has been very reliable in FA. I don't remember ever having a malfunction, but it is possible I had one or two and don't remember. 100 round drums are a blast with the 10/22. The AM180 is fun due to the high cyclic rate, but mags are a pain to load and it is a little finicky. Not near as reliable as the 10/22. I have had problems with winders and mags coming off the gun half way through a mag.

 

[amphibian]

My 1022 has been very reliable in FA. I don't remember ever having a malfunction, but it is possible I had one or two and don't remember. 100 round drums are a blast with the 10/22. The AM180 is fun due to the high cyclic rate, but mags are a pain to load and it is a little finicky. Not near as reliable as the 10/22. I have had problems with winders and mags coming off the gun half way through a mag.

Which 100 round drum? Are you referring to the 110 Round GSG drum? I didn't know if those were reliable in a FA 10/22.

 

[amphibian]

I'm going to cheerfully answer a question you didn't necessarily ask (😁) and share that an M16 is a good alternative for both of these.

As a FA 10/22 stand in, my CMMG/BoreBuddy .22 conversion is super reliable and probably my favorite configuration for my M16.

As an American 180 stand in, my Tactical Innovations AM-15 upper has been great and will do a mean drum dump. Swapping out the regular M16 FCG for the open bolt FCG that the AM-15 needs is a little tedious, but only a little.

The M16 is where it's at for FA .22, IMO.

Totally agree. My first MG was a RR AMT Lightning (stainless clone of the 10/22) that Norrell converted to his system. I got this during the 1994-2004 ban so your only choice was pre-ban plastic mags. Norrell's recommended mag was the steel lip Butler Creek mags and a close second was the Eagle Arms 30 rounders. I ended up wearing out the feed lips on my Eagle mags and the bolt on my Norrell cracked in half. Norrell made me a new bolt which is milled out to accept his custom anti-bounce weight. I asked he would sell me a spare bolt and he told me no.
He said he would only replace it once the current one breaks. Other issue is the proprietary fire control parts that Norrell made.

At the time, M16's were going for close to my Norrell so I sold it to buy an M16 which was the best thing I could ever do even if just talking 22LR as back then I could still get steel Ciener kit mags that never wear out. No problem getting spare kits and firecontrol for the M16.

I also have a belt fed LM7 and Razorback w/ a 500 round belt. I never bought any of the 1000 round belts.
No longer made but as posted above, I think the Craig may release the AM-15 agin.

I have several friends that have AM180's and once tweaked they have all run very well. But I'd still take an M16 over a 10/22 or an AM180.

 

[nklf]

Which 100 round drum? Are you referring to the 110 Round GSG drum? I didn't know if those were reliable in a FA 10/22.

Yes the GSG 110 round drum. I normally load two boxes of .22 (100 rounds) simply because I am OCD and don't like partial boxes of ammo lying around. I have never had an issue with the GSG drums in the 10/22. Even when my grandson loaded a drum and left empty slots in the feed belt here and there, it still did not miss feed in FA.

 

[Cortland]

I think the Craig may release the AM-15 agin.

I was waiting for maybe two years and finally received a "back in stock" notification a few months ago and snatched one up. They do show as out of stock again now, but they've definitely made some recently.

 

[TSPC]

I have a Norrell and M16s with 22kits.

The Norrell runs the best. It’s great with Ruger and High Tower magazines. Never had luck with drums.

The M16 kits run well but none of them as well as the 1022. I’ve tried the Ceiner, CMMG, Bore Buddy and many different magazines. I even tried an open bolt CMMG based on Strobro’s design for the Max-11A1/15. They run well, better than 22 kits I've tried for other platforms, just not as well as the 1022.

Also had both the LM-7 belt-fed and Gen 2 AM-15 (https://www.tacticalinc.com/catalog/product/00531). AM-15 was good but the LM7 never ran well.

 

[KickStand]

If you’re thinking about getting a Norrell 10/22, I’d definitely look for an SP1 conversion instead.

First thing I did when I got my sp1 and PAWS was to buy Cmmg conversion. Plug and play and runs like a top. I’ve shot a Norrell conversion and it’s cool but for the price, sack up and buy a RR. You can do almost anything with it and most of it is cheap and available everywhere.

My first test with my 22 kit, 3 mags with NO problems. Get the lightnin grip loader with the AR-15-22 mag adapter and you’re golden.

 

[amphibian]

Most 22LR setups will require some tinkering and I'd say avoid 22LR MG's if you are the impatient and non-tinkerer type. The LM7 is my most finicky setup but as shown in the video above, it can run very well if you have the patience and resources. It is probably the most gratifying when working.

Not as much trouble to haul to the range as a 1919 and suppresses great.

However, if I am going to the range with multiple guns and want to reduce the amount of supporting stuff I need to bring, I just take an M16 with a Ciener kit and (4) 50 round Black Dog drums in a 50 call ammo can. My setup works very well with that.

I didn't want to let the cat out of the bag yet, but someone gave me a very unique highly modified Ciener setup that is slow fire like 600 RPM. Very ingenious method of operation that I have never seen publicly done before. I want to be able to replicate the setup and share the details once I am done.

My point is with the M16, you have so many 22LR options in regards to method of operation and feeding vs getting a one trick pony 10/22 or AM180. The AM180 was the firepower king with it's 375round drum but that has been surpassed with the LM7 / Razorback.

 

[mattnh]

I’d have to agree with the posts above about M16s.
I’ve found the CMGG to be very reliable.

 

[Krink545]

Ditto.

I would love a 10/22 or AM180.
But if you're looking to purchase a more versatile gun obviously a factory or converted M16 is the way to go.
My 22 Upper is on my M16A1 probably 90% of the time. I do have a LM7 upper but it doesn't get used much. You may have seen the video of mine doing a thousand round belt dump. I'm tempted to buy one of the Tactical Innovations uppers that use the American 180 drum.

But this is the setup I use most.
Dedicated 22 Barrel currently using black dog magazines also runs great with the black dog drums.

 

[Krink545]

Few more things.
Guys on this forum are having good luck with the grey market research FRT with a 22 upper. Haven't tried it yet but will soon.

Here's the AM180 drum loader.
Almost $2K but very cool.

 

[SecondAmend]

For AM180 drum use for "bulk" .22LR shooting there is (or was) the A&D Adapter (that was sold by Bazooka Brothers and is sometimes called a "Bazooka Brothers Adapter"). There were versions of the adapter for Uzi, H&K, MAC 11/9, and AR-15/M16. The adapters come up for sale every now and then. There was talk a few years ago of exploring a revival of new manufacturing, but I don't recall seeing any follow up.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

ETA: There were also the Calico .22LR uppers.

 

[KickStand]

Here's the AM180 drum loader.
Almost $2K but very cool.

Here’s an AM180 loader that Mak91 made and it’s awesome. Plus, it’s way and I mean way cheaper. Not sure if he still makes them but probably would, when he has time.

For AM180 drum use for "bulk" .22LR shooting there is (or was) the A&D Adapter (that was sold by Bazooka Brothers and is sometimes called a "Bazooka Brothers Adapter"). There were versions of the adapter for Uzi, H&K, MAC 11/9, and AR-15/M16. The adapters come up for sale every now and then. There was talk a few years ago of exploring a revival of new manufacturing, but I don't recall seeing any follow up.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

ETA: There were also the Calico .22LR uppers.

I really wish the BB adapters would come back out.

My M11/9 BB adapter works great.

My M16 BB adapter that I have, separated at the base of the mag block/tower, where it meets the metal adapter. I’ve tried to re-attach it with epoxy’s and Mak91 tried to help me with the project.

 

[MG34_Dan]

I would be in for one of Mak91's loader.

 

[KickStand]

I would be in for one of Mak91's loader.

Reach out to him.

A few things to note:
You do NOT have to use a loading tray or anything to load the pan mags with his loader. It seemed like I initially had to use them but actually got the hang of it without a stand or Tupperware.

Also, you don’t have to take the loader off when the tray is going to go down to the next level (like I did in the video).

Lastly, his loader is extremely fast. The video does NOT do it justice.

——————————————————

Back on topic.

Gaujo,
do you have a Lage 22 kit?
I’m asking because at one time, a Norrell 10/22 was my grail gun.
After getting his 22 kit, I forget about a norrell 10/22.

 

[MG34_Dan]

Reach out to him.

...

I just sent him a message. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Nome Nomad]

I have a transferable American 180 (I actually had two at one point), and I also have the cmmg .22 kit for my M16. I can't speak on the 10/22 as I've never run one but the American 180 runs well most of the time. Parts and service are avalible through E&L manufacturing which is nice. As mentioned by others the drums are a pain to load and very expensive. Also, you need to run high velocity ammo in the 180, plated preferably. I've have got mine running on Noma tac 22 which is just barely enough to work the action. It's tons of fun but the least shot mg in my collection due to the labor of loading drums and cleaning it constantly. I shoot the cmmg conversion more it seems in my m16, but it's not ready out of the pack, you'll need upgrades from borebuddy to get her running well.