37mm Tannerite?

[sniperdoc]

Just curious, is it legal to use Tannerite to load 37mm (or other sizes) projectiles, or would they have to be registered with ATF?
Would they even explode on impact?
Or would they explode when fired?

 

[slimshady]

Live explosives above a miniscule amount turns a projectile into a DD. Impact sets off tannerite, i would imagine the thump of firing it would exceed the thump of it hitting. Likely would not go off but i ain't gonna test it. Would need a fuse of some sort I would think.

 

[ericthered]

I do not know anything about the legal ramifications, nor will I suggest any legal advice, nor what I say could be construed as legal advice.
That being said, I have thought about similar things. I do not know at what point tannerite becomes a explosive (or if it actually legally ever becomes a explosive). I would "think" that it never is a legal explosive based on the fact that it would then be a felony to pop off some (i do not know either if a specific amount changes the classification).
Tannerites reaction is started by high pressure shock. I do not know if the firing of the grenade would detonate it or not (I would guess not) but the contact I would most certainly think would not detonate. I can think of multiple mechanical devices that may or may not work to detonate it, but I think that they would be more trouble then they are worth.
What I would think the best method would possibly be to go, is research what exactly constitutes a firework, and find out if you can classify a fused black powder shell as a firework. I do not know what the legalities of a remote discharged black powder shell would be. A magnesium strip fuse that is ignited off of the 37mm shell (with a wadding between the propellant and the charge). It would be more of a distance fuse then a contact fuse. But hey, you could add metals to make it a cool color and what!

Just thinking things through, (again, no legal advice here). I cant remember what your m37 was classified as, is it a dd or a shotgun (sbs?)? I do not know if this matters, as I "think" it more matters what you launch then how... thinking about can cannons.
Just had a thought... you need a dragons breath shot... please post a picture!!!

 

[slimshady]

Tannerite is a binary explosive. A binary explosive consists of 2 ingredients (or multiple ingredients in two separate components) that are not considered explosives by themselves. However, once mixed they become an explosive and will detonate. The advantage of binary explosives is the unmixed components can be shipped directly to anyone, no explosive use permit required as is needed with explosives in general, no explosive magazine storage required, etc. Once mixed however, all the storage and transport rules apply which is why you mix it on site and use all mixed targets.

Anyone who mixes a binary explosive is considered to be manufacturing explosives. however, much like making your own guns, if you are doing it for private use (blowing stumps in your backyard, playing at the range, etc.) you are exempt from needing an explosives license. Commercial use (selling it, using it to take stumps out as part of your tee business, etc.) does require the license.

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/binary-explosives


37mm launchers are generally considered to be signal devices, not firearms or NFA at all. However, possessing "anti-personnel" ammunition along with a launcher classifies it as a Destructive Device.

All the above is Fed law, state and local laws vary and I'm pretty sure some localities have at least tried to ban exploding targets.

BTW, the "recipe" for Tannerite is available if searched out, and when mixed from bulk chemicals and packaged in your own containers is much more economical than buying actual Tannerite.

 

[Deerhurst]

Highly doubt there is enough energy in a non DD 37mm round to set off tannerite.

 

[rybread]

Highly doubt there is enough energy in a non DD 37mm round to set off tannerite.

This. It’s not going to work. Bad idea. You could increase the launch charge but it’ll likely blow your hand off before blowing up a target.

 

[sniperdoc]

I suppose that you could make a "detonator" for each round out of a muzzleloader nipple, but you'd likely lose them when the round goes off, and I'm not sure about the legalities of doing things like that.
Still might work though

 

[slimshady]

With a DD that fires exploding rounds, the ammo itself is also a DD, like hand grenades. $200 tax on each one, not sure what needs to be registered though, the casing or the warhead. Rumor has it someone registered a hand grenade as a DD and engraved the info on the spoon, not the grenade. Supposedly he tosses the live grenade, orange painted spoon flies off and he recovers it after the big boom to "reload" it with another live grenade. If you registered the casing you could afford to shoot one, if it's each warhead might be worth it to get the DD SOT.

As for a fuse, a plain old 209 shotshell primer with a BB hot melt glued to the center would fire when it hits a hard surface. Tannerite only goes off with enough kinetic energy applied to it, IIRC a .223 is the minimum caliber that sets it off. You would need a "booster" the primer sets off then it's the booster charge that sets off the tannerite.

 

[ericthered]

I have wondered about registering things like spoons and casings. I would think that your thought with primer and bb, just fleshed out to make it work would then basically be classified as a gun, which as far as I know remote fired guns/tripwire guns are illegal (i do not know for a fact). A proppellent charge in the shell and then a bag of explosive dropped down the barrel may be legal? If the two charges are not a singular cartridge.

 

[shiklg]

sounds like a recipe for blindness, or premature death.

 

[sniperdoc]

My understanding is that, for a projectile to fall under the definition of "Destructive Device" because of explosive content, it must contain over 1/4(?) ounce of explosive material.
Tannerite is not considered to be an explosive, and doesn't require a license to buy, possess, or use for "recreational purposes", hence my question.
If legal, this would be a fun, easy way to get a "bang" out of a day at the range

 

[slimshady]

Tannerite is a "Bianary Explosive", meaning unmixed the two separate ingredients are not regulated as explosives. Once mixed, and capable of going BOOM, they become an explosive just like any other as far as the regs go. Magazine storage, transport regs, etc. Mix up one too many targets, your only option at the range for most folks is shoot it or pour it out on the ground and spread it out.

Here's ATF' summary of Binary Explosives:

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/binary-explosives

 

[sniperdoc]

Tannerite is a "Bianary Explosive", meaning unmixed the two separate ingredients are not regulated as explosives. Once mixed, and capable of going BOOM, they become an explosive just like any other as far as the regs go. Magazine storage, transport regs, etc. Mix up one too many targets, your only option at the range for most folks is shoot it or pour it out on the ground and spread it out.

Here's ATF' summary of Binary Explosives:

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/binary-explosives

I understand that Tannerite is a Binary Explosive, and must be used according to ATF guidelines.
Maybe I oversimplified earlier statements; I was referring to the fact that it is not regulated the same way as Explosives like TNT, PETN, C4, COMP B, etc.

 

[slimshady]

MIXED tannerite is an explosive just like TNT, PETN, C4 etc. and is treated the same as to regulations. UNMIXED tannerite is not an explosive and thus does not have to follow any of the explosives regs. To use it in a shell it would have to be mixed, thus you are putting an explosive into the shell.

Take your TNT example, I can go out and buy Toluene and Nitric Acid at a chemical supply store. no explosives regs apply as neither component is an explosive by itself. However, I follow the process for nitrating the Toluene three times to produce TNT, the final product is regulated as an explosive. Tannerite is following the same process, raw materials to explosive, but is a much simpler "shake and bake" type of procedure. In both cases the final product is an explosive and is treated as such legally.

 

[sniperdoc]

MIXED tannerite is an explosive just like TNT, PETN, C4 etc. and is treated the same as to regulations. UNMIXED tannerite is not an explosive and thus does not have to follow any of the explosives regs. To use it in a shell it would have to be mixed, thus you are putting an explosive into the shell.

Take your TNT example, I can go out and buy Toluene and Nitric Acid at a chemical supply store. no explosives regs apply as neither component is an explosive by itself. However, I follow the process for nitrating the Toluene three times to produce TNT, the final product is regulated as an explosive. Tannerite is following the same process, raw materials to explosive, but is a much simpler "shake and bake" type of procedure. In both cases the final product is an explosive and is treated as such legally.

That's part of the question I was asking; would it be legal to fill a projectile with Tannerite, without having to pay the $200 tax.

 

[slimshady]

No, to make tannerite go boom it needs to be mixed, at which point it legally becomes an explosive. Anything over the 1/4 ounce limit in the projectile triggers the tax and registration requirements. AFAIk the only way to avoid the tax on individual rounds is to get licensed and pay the SOT to become a dealer/importer/manufacturer of DD ammo and then your transfers in are tax free. It is not cheap, but if you plan to shoot more than a handful of rounds a year it saves $$$. Plus you actually have to deal in the stuff, which adds expense.

 

[rybread]

Binary explosives in launcher is a solid plan to become a one handed man.

 

[sskinwindoww]

why dont you shoot the tannerite in a pile with a concussion 37mm round, a direct impact should trigger your desired results

 

[sskinwindoww]

Just curious, is it legal to use Tannerite to load 37mm (or other sizes) projectiles, or would they have to be registered with ATF?
Would they even explode on impact?
Or would they explode when fired?

why dont you shoot the tannerite in a pile with a concussion 37mm round, a direct impact should trigger your desired results

 

[sskinwindoww]

Tannerite is a binary explosive. A binary explosive consists of 2 ingredients (or multiple ingredients in two separate components) that are not considered explosives by themselves. However, once mixed they become an explosive and will detonate. The advantage of binary explosives is the unmixed components can be shipped directly to anyone, no explosive use permit required as is needed with explosives in general, no explosive magazine storage required, etc. Once mixed however, all the storage and transport rules apply which is why you mix it on site and use all mixed targets.

Anyone who mixes a binary explosive is considered to be manufacturing explosives. however, much like making your own guns, if you are doing it for private use (blowing stumps in your backyard, playing at the range, etc.) you are exempt from needing an explosives license. Commercial use (selling it, using it to take stumps out as part of your tee business, etc.) does require the license.

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/binary-explosives


37mm launchers are generally considered to be signal devices, not firearms or NFA at all. However, possessing "anti-personnel" ammunition along with a launcher classifies it as a Destructive Device.

All the above is Fed law, state and local laws vary and I'm pretty sure some localities have at least tried to ban exploding targets.

BTW, the "recipe" for Tannerite is available if searched out, and when mixed from bulk chemicals and packaged in your own containers is much more economical than buying actual Tannerite.

why dont you shoot the tannerite in a pile with a concussion 37mm round, a direct impact should trigger your desired results