32rd IMI mags - not for SMGs?

[ATCDoktor]

I recently fitted an IMI lower to my Group Industries UZI and it's a fairly simple.

The pins have a slot on one side, just turn them a quarter turn or so to get the slot on the inside of the pin to line up correctly and drive them out. Don't beat on them that hard, they should call me out with little resistance.

Once I got the "safety safety" out and the lower put back together, my take down pin would still not line up correctly it was still about an 1/8th inch off.

I had to file the bottom of the tab on the lower that fits into the the receiver just a little to get the lower to "close up" on the take down pin hole.

All totaled it took me about an hour to get it sorted out.

With respect to my original lower, there was nothing wrong with it, I just wanted an extra "just in case".

That said, the "action" (actuation of grip safety and trigger pull) on the IMI lower is better than the stock GI lower.

That's my experience, YMMV.

Dr.

 

[Twinsen]

I removed the safety-safety and the FCG lined up and went on. I'll give it a swing and a miss tomorrow, slightly dent some primers.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

i would have someone who has fired an uzi try it...just like in the video i posted---it can take a special touch to shoot it...ive had issues with subguns when i try to shoot to fast...to much on/off/on/off = too quickly and it jams.....each gun is different

my IMI lower goes right on my GI uzi....it does take a bit of force..it doesnt naturally slide right on...but the trigger is much,much nicer....look at both of your trigger groups before you put the imi on...look at how the sear drops...my IMI drops the sear completely with 1/2 a trigger pull and buries it on a full pull....my GI goes flush only when the trigger is buried.....the IMI is more forgiving in my opinion to trigger pull issues

if your issue is happening from both sides of the mag it may not be an alignment issue of your receiver....could be a mag height issue

 

[Twinsen]

The IMI FCG wasn't going on far enough with 300 pounds of man on it. That safety-safety was interfering. The springs in the IMI FCG are weaker, but I don't see any other differences, functionally. They release and disconnect similarly.

I've got it at the range now. Same issues. There are other SMGs in the sea. I'll move on.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

send it to Richard and let him fix it....if its in jail you have nothing but time....

ive spent 1500 rounds trying to get mine running...countless tests....each thing i did seemed to improve it...its still finicky.....

 

[Twinsen]

Guys, thank you for all the help and suggestions. After replacing everything, the gun works 80%.

its still finicky

That is what I foresee. I haven't ever seen one that runs worth half a shit. On the other hand, I've yet to meet a tube gun that doesn't run.

I reached out to Richard a couple days ago. When he responds, I'll figure out what I'm willing to do.

 

[Samuel_Hoggson]

Negative experiences get expressed on the forum. Not so the positives. Have two FS Vectors that run perfectly with the Group parts and also with IMI parts.

If they did not run to my satisfaction, I'd send them to Richard knowing they will come back working perfectly.

Richard quotes a long wait till he can get to your Uzi. Getting it straightened correctly will be worth the wait.

You can ignore the advice already given, and perseverate trying different mags, ammo, and parts. You can then tell us - in great detail - how nothing tried was to any avail. And how Uzis are junk. We've been through this.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

you can contact John Andrewski...its who straightened out my Uzi...its greatly improved since sending it to him, but its still not 100%....i still believe its me and the way i pull the trigger...he was very reasonable price wise and got my gun back quickly.....he claims to have worked on 100 Vectors/Gi's....smart guy with great service....

i still think i have a mag height issue after everything ive done and im still experimenting, but it runs 99% or better now....ive had my Mac jam on me and 3 weeks ago i had my Thompson jam a couple of times(which ive fired endlessly w/o a jam for a year)....sometimes its the ammo....i think often its the operator and how he pulls the trigger....i just notice over and over how my wife/kids get 20x more jams than i do on all my guns....tells me there is more to shooting a full auto than just a normal pull of the trigger

id spend the $500 and get a gunsmith to look at it before you give up....

 

[RoverDave]

Negative experiences get expressed on the forum. Not so the positives. Have two FS Vectors that run perfectly with the Group parts and also with IMI parts.

There are no Group Industries parts in a Vector gun (other than the receiver itself). The Vector guns used South African parts, which are excellent parts.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

gi made most of its own parts right Dave?

polish the feed ramp if you didnt..i used 2000 grit sandpaper and gun oil.then used flintz...its like a mirror..that improved feeding maybe 25%

 

[RoverDave]

gi made most of its own parts right Dave?

Yes, that's correct.

 

[thompson4433]

I bought a NIB Vector UZI, which uses the same Group Industries receiver as the OP has.
I believe the difference between Vectors and GI guns is that Vector finished their guns with South African Lyttleton IMI parts instead GI made parts.


My NIB UZI had two problems: the trunnion welds cracked right away, and the bolt and barrel had an interference problem, the bolt was smacking the barrel.

I sent the gun to Vector for repairs, which was a disaster, they did a horrible job. I give them a grade F.

Then I sent it to John Andrewski. He did NOT fix it properly and it still had the interference problem and did not run. Another grade F.

So I sent it to Richard Hoffmann. I had to wait about a year for the repair to be done but when I got it back from Richard it was fixed properly. Grade A.


My UZI runs 100% all the time now. Zero malfunctions.

Sometimes at the range, I let people burn a mag or two, it always runs 100%. Recently I let a 14 or 15 year old girl shoot it, it was the first gun she ever shot. No malfunctions.

The UZI is a well designed gun, if it’s repaired properly it will not require any special technique to make it shoot 100%.


The only time my UZI ever jams, is when I use 147 grain flat points. It does not like feeding them into a mil-spec barrel. So I opened the barrel funnel up a small amount and now it feeds 100%. The flat points were just barely catching on the end of the barrel.

I don’t regard this as a problem with the gun, UZIs were designed to feed 124 grain FMJ round nose bullets, not flat points. The 124 grain FMJ RN is a very slippery bullet profile, almost perfect for feeding, so the UZI does not have a big funnel at the barrel to feed flat tip bullets.

There are commercially available barrels with a wider funnel, but they overdid it, the funnel is so huge that it cuts down into the chamber area of the barrel and there is not proper support for the cartridge. I would avoid these barrels.



To summarize, the OP would be wise to send the gun to Richard Hoffmann, he’ll end up with a 100% running gun. He has the reputation of being the master gunsmith for UZIs, and it is definitely worth the wait to end up with a properly repaired gun. The UZI is a fantastic gun and it’s worth a few hundred dollars to get it running well.


The above is just a summary of my experience with my Vector, hope it helps a bit.

 

[thompson4433]

you can contact John Andrewski...its who straightened out my Uzi...its greatly improved since sending it to him, but its still not 100%....i still believe its me and the way i pull the trigger...he was very reasonable price wise and got my gun back quickly.....he claims to have worked on 100 Vectors/Gi's....smart guy with great service....

i still think i have a mag height issue after everything ive done and im still experimenting, but it runs 99% or better now....ive had my Mac jam on me and 3 weeks ago i had my Thompson jam a couple of times(which ive fired endlessly w/o a jam for a year)....sometimes its the ammo....i think often its the operator and how he pulls the trigger....i just notice over and over how my wife/kids get 20x more jams than i do on all my guns....tells me there is more to shooting a full auto than just a normal pull of the trigger

id spend the $500 and get a gunsmith to look at it before you give up....

Your gun appears to have a bug of some kind.

Next time I go to the range I'll try to get my UZI to jam by pulling the trigger very slowly or limp-wristing the gun.

I doubt I'll be able to make it jam that way, but I'll give it a try and let you know.

A gun design that requires fancy finger yoga to make it run good would not make for a good combat weapon.


You might as well go ahead and send the gun to Richard Hoffmann and get it fixed properly. I can tell from your posts that you're not the kind of guy who is going to be happy with a jammy gun.

Anyone can nail up a shingle on his front door with "gunsmith" written on it. The ones who know what they're doing usually have a long waiting list, because they are rare.

The guy who knows how to fix west hurley Thompsons has a 4+ year waiting list.

That's the world we live in.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

i agree it still has a bug

cant explain why my son cant shoot it and i can pick it right up and blast away though

i am not the type to let it go, you are correct....i am also not the type to have any patience to send my gun in for a year either....i will sell it and get a IMI bolt gun first....i could probably get what i paid for it as it still looks NIB

ive had jams with my Thompson and Mac Lage max 10 too....on/off the trigger too fast can cause issues...ive got some .45 ammo (armscore) that doesnt feed well too.....too many possibilities

 

[thompson4433]

What are you going to do if the bolt gun jams too? Plus transfers are moving right along these days. People are reporting a zippy 10 to 11 months or so. That's your government at work: quick, efficient, courteous.


Your MGs should not be jamming at all. Most guns that have a reputation for running well do not jam that often. If you have a jam-o-matic like a desert eagle, it might jam every mag, but if you have a reliable gun like a Colt Gold Cup or Ruger 10/22, they should run 100%.

M16s, UZIs, Thompsons and MACs should all be running 100% with decent quality ammo, WWB or better. If those kind of guns jam, they must have a problem, a faulty part or something.


Correct trigger pull is a sort of a thing with some guns but it's not that critical. You shouldn't have to focus on it.

Maybe your kid is limp-wristing the UZI so bad that he's making it malfunction. Autoloaders will short stroke if you let the receiver recoil backwards too much.


What kind of ammo are you using? I typically use either my reloads, or I use bulk ammo like Speer Lawman or Blazer Brass. I don't like the super extra cheap ammo, the dip in quality isn't worth the cost differential. You save $3.75 per 100 to shoot some ammo made in a place where the factory workers have running lesions. And people are always reporting case failures with the factory reloads. I like my fingers to stay attached to my body.

 

[johnnywitt]

I bought a NIB Vector UZI, which uses the same Group Industries receiver as the OP has.
I believe the difference between Vectors and GI guns is that Vector finished their guns with South African Lyttleton IMI parts instead GI made parts.


My NIB UZI had two problems: the trunnion welds cracked right away, and the bolt and barrel had an interference problem, the bolt was smacking the barrel.

I sent the gun to Vector for repairs, which was a disaster, they did a horrible job. I give them a grade F.

Then I sent it to John Andrewski. He did NOT fix it properly and it still had the interference problem and did not run. Another grade F.

So I sent it to Richard Hoffmann. I had to wait about a year for the repair to be done but when I got it back from Richard it was fixed properly. Grade A.


My UZI runs 100% all the time now. Zero malfunctions.

Sometimes at the range, I let people burn a mag or two, it always runs 100%. Recently I let a 14 or 15 year old girl shoot it, it was the first gun she ever shot. No malfunctions.

The UZI is a well designed gun, if it’s repaired properly it will not require any special technique to make it shoot 100%.


The only time my UZI ever jams, is when I use 147 grain flat points. It does not like feeding them into a mil-spec barrel. So I opened the barrel funnel up a small amount and now it feeds 100%. The flat points were just barely catching on the end of the barrel.

I don’t regard this as a problem with the gun, UZIs were designed to feed 124 grain FMJ round nose bullets, not flat points. The 124 grain FMJ RN is a very slippery bullet profile, almost perfect for feeding, so the UZI does not have a big funnel at the barrel to feed flat tip bullets.

There are commercially available barrels with a wider funnel, but they overdid it, the funnel is so huge that it cuts down into the chamber area of the barrel and there is not proper support for the cartridge. I would avoid these barrels.



To summarize, the OP would be wise to send the gun to Richard Hoffmann, he’ll end up with a 100% running gun. He has the reputation of being the master gunsmith for UZIs, and it is definitely worth the wait to end up with a properly repaired gun. The UZI is a fantastic gun and it’s worth a few hundred dollars to get it running well.


The above is just a summary of my experience with my Vector, hope it helps a bit.

I would have a Semi Auto Feedramp installed. My Vector FS FA will shoot 147 FP or HP all day long now, or any other HP or FP. It will even shoot Rem UMC reliably. The SA Feedramps help IMO.

 

[thompson4433]

I would have a Semi Auto Feedramp installed. My Vector FS FA will shoot 147 FP or HP all day long now, or any other HP or FP. It will even shoot Rem UMC reliably. The SA Feedramps help IMO.

I do have the semi-auto feedramp installed. Some UZIs feed flat point ammo perfectly and some don't, it's hit and miss.

Mine would just barely catch the edge of the 147 gr flat nose on the edge of the flat on the end of the barrel. Not every single time, maybe once per mag.

Probably if I had just taken a piece of emery paper and rounded the edge of the flat on the barrel a little it would have been enough to fix the problem. But I figured out a way to open the barrel funnel up a little more without touching the chamber.

There's a thread on it I posted on this site.

 

[thompson4433]

Battering Ram,

What's the latest and greatest on your UZI?

 

[harleypower69]

Is the barrel an IMI barrel? I had reliability issues with an out of spec barrel from a vendor. Just throwing that out there as a possibility.

 

[Twinsen]

Is the barrel an IMI barrel? I had reliability issues with an out of spec barrel from a vendor. Just throwing that out there as a possibility.

I realized this recently, and got a second barrel of unknown quality to test with. I haven't tested yet.

The barrel import ban is obnoxious.